Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence debate -
Tuesday, 18 Jun 2024

Apologies have been received from Senator Craughwell, Senator Joe O'Reilly, who is on duty in the Seanad, and Senator Wilson.

The subject of our meeting is to meet again with Her Excellency Larysa Gerasko, ambassador of Ukraine to Ireland, and for her to provide an update on the current situation in Ukraine and the wider region, with particular reference to the economic consequences of the devastation in the region. Ambassador Gerasko is joined by Mr. Dmytro Shchedrin, first secretary at the embassy. They are welcome. I also extend a welcome to friends in the diplomatic corps - ambassadors in the region of Ukraine. They are all welcome.

I note we have some students in the Public Gallery from Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, USA, who are on the summer study abroad programme at UCD. They are welcome to this meeting of the Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence. Students from Georgia Institute of Technology are no strangers to Dublin. I assume there are some football players among them. Georgia Tech is always welcome to our annual student American football game held in our national stadium at Croke Park. In the meantime, I wish them well in their studies in UCD and Dublin.

The format of our meeting is that, in the usual manner, we will hear an opening statement from the ambassador to be followed by a question and answer session with members of the committee. I ask members to be concise in their questions to allow all members the opportunity to participate.

I remind witnesses and members of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make them in any way identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of any person or entity.

Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks.

I remind members that they are only allowed to participate in this meeting if they are physically located on the Leinster House complex. I remind witnesses that we are still operating something of a post-Covid hybrid format in that it is possible for members to participate online from their offices. I do not see any members doing so now, but in the event some do, I will draw the matter to the attention of the speaker.

I now call Ambassador Gerasko to make her opening statement.

I am honoured to be here today and to brief the distinguished members of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence on the latest developments in Ukraine, including ongoing war and our visible challenges for the future. Before I turn to my remarks, let me, on behalf of the people of Ukraine, extend words of appreciation for the support we are receiving from Ireland at this unprecedentedly challenging time for our country. We are very grateful for it.

Today is the 846th day of Russia’s full-scale invasion of my country, a major escalation of the Russian war against Ukraine, which began ten years ago. Russia’s ongoing war of aggression against Ukraine continues to cause large-scale human suffering and destruction and to create global risks and a crisis for the world. On the ground, Russia's offensive actions have intensified significantly, and the operational and strategic environment tends to escalate. The Russian forces are throwing in all the combat-ready matériel they have.

In an attempt to seize the strategic initiative, break through the front line and advance deeper into the territory of our country, the enemy has focused its main efforts on several areas, creating a significant advantage in forces and means. The Russian army has resorted to terrorist methods and carries out missile attacks by deploying weapons against facilities of civilian infrastructure. In the direction of Kharkiv, which is in the east of our country, the operational situation remains difficult and dynamically changing. The Russian offensive in the north of the Kharkiv region did not achieve the results expected by the Kremlin. Due to the resumption of western military aid to Ukraine and permission being granted to attack the Russian rear in the Belgorod region with western weapons, Ukraine is nullifying the Russian offensive advantages in the border regions.

Dear members of the committee, Russia regularly sends signals of alleged willingness to negotiate with Ukraine or reach a ceasefire along the current front lines. These signals have nothing to do with a genuine desire to end the war or establish peace. Since 2014, more than 200 rounds of negotiations with the Russian side have taken place, including in the Normandy format. Ceasefire agreements were reached more than ten times. These talks, however, were perceived by the Kremlin as a weakness and the time during the negotiations was used by it to prepare for the next more brutal and large-scale attack that launched on 24 February 2022.

On Friday, 14 June, Putin made yet another series of manipulative statements aimed at misleading the international community, undermining diplomatic efforts to achieve a just peace and shattering the unity of the world majority around the purposes and principles of the UN Charter.

Putin wants no peace talks. He wants Ukraine's capitulation and no responsibility for his brutal and unprovoked aggression. It is absurd for Putin, who, together with his accomplices, planned, prepared and executed the largest armed aggression in Europe since the Second World War, to present himself as a peacemaker and to put forward options for ending the war he started that undermine the foundations of the international legal order and the UN Charter. All of Putin's ultimatums have been voiced by Moscow many times previously. There is nothing new in the latest statement.

However, the timing of the announcement is indicative. By throwing such signals into the information space on the eve of the inaugural Global Peace Summit in Switzerland, Putin pursues only one goal, which is to prevent leaders and countries from participating in the summit. The fact Putin's statement appeared just one day before the summit is evidence Russia is afraid of true peace. Regardless of Russian countermeasures, the inaugural Global Peace Summit, dedicated to the steps set out in Ukraine's peace formula, took place as planned on 15 and 16 June in Switzerland. It was the largest ever international event in support of Ukraine and peace, with 101 countries and international organisations representing all parts of the world and all continents.

The peace summit was successful. Fundamental positions on Ukraine were included in the joint communiqué signed by 78 countries and four international organisations. The participants agreed that Ukrainian nuclear power plants, particularly the Zaporizhzhia plant, must operate safely and securely under the full sovereign control of Ukraine and in line with International Atomic Energy Agency, IAEA, principles and under its supervision. Nuclear blackmail is unacceptable. Food security must not be weaponised in any way. Ukrainian agricultural products should be securely and freely provided to interested third countries. All prisoners of war must be released by complete exchange. All deported and unlawfully displaced Ukrainian children and all other Ukrainian civilians who were unlawfully detained must be returned to Ukraine. The UN Charter, including the principles of respect for territorial integrity and sovereignty, is the basis for achieving a comprehensive, just and sustainable peace in Ukraine.

We are grateful to Ireland for participating in the peace summit at the highest possible level and for contributing to the genuine peace process. We are just as grateful to Ireland for joining the G7 joint declaration of support for Ukraine of 12 July 2023. We strongly believe the next important step is for our countries to sign an agreement on security co-operation and long-term support for Ukraine. We have already signed 17 bilateral agreements within the framework of the joint declaration.

Russia continues its unjustified and illegal nuclear blackmail. Another proof of that is the announcement by Russia on 6 May of holding drills to practise the preparation and usage of non-strategic nuclear weapons, commonly referred to as tactical nuclear weapons, to counter what Russia referred to as the "provocative statements and threats of certain Western officials". On 10 June, Belarus announced it will participate in the second stage of Russian drills simulating the launch of tactical nuclear weapons as an element of claimed consistent strengthening of its defence capabilities.

Russia is holding the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant hostage and putting the world in danger of nuclear technological disaster. Violating all principles of nuclear and radiation safety, Russia continues to create an extremely dangerous situation at the station, posing a direct threat to the nuclear safety of all mankind.

The other issue that needs an immediate response from the world community is the widespread and systematic violation of human rights of children in the context of Russia’s war against Ukraine. Violations of international humanitarian law must be stopped, those responsible must be held to account and the victims, including Ukrainian children, must have access to remedy and redress.

To address this problem, the Bring Kids Back UA platform was initiated by the President of Ukraine. The strategic action plan unites the efforts of the Ukrainian Government, partner countries, international organisations and civil society to trace, identify, repatriate and care for all Ukrainian children illegally deported by Russia and to provide the ICC with facts and proven information it needs to prosecute the criminals responsible for these illegal deportations. According to our data, almost 20,000 cases of forcibly deported children by the Russian occupiers were documented. So far, only approximately 600 kidnapped children have been returned and reunited with their families. We expect that Ireland will be among the most active participants of the coalition.

The situation in the Ukraine's energy sector is extremely difficult. Some 9.2 GW of generation capacity has been lost, while Russia continues to target energy facilities. The Russians want to achieve a complete blackout of Ukraine. They have destroyed almost 80% of Ukraine's thermal power generation. More than 800 heat supply facilities have been destroyed or damaged. There are also losses in distribution systems. The terrorist attack of 22 March was the most massive in the history of attacks on the energy sector. The damage was more extensive than during the massive strikes in 2022 and 2023. The enemy used more than 150 different munitions simultaneously. The purpose was to achieve a large-scale blackout in Ukraine and destroy the entire energy system to influence Ukraine's economy and our capacity for electricity export to Europe.

As of today, the EU has accumulated €200 million and G7 countries will provide an additional €1 billion for the urgent repair of Ukraine's energy system. Funds for thousands of generators and solar panels will be raised in order to decentralise energy production and increase the energy system's resilience against Russian attacks. The bill for the destruction in the energy sector alone amounts to over €50 billion.

Unfortunately, we need approximately €35 billion in foreign financial aid due to the budget deficit and high defence and security expenses. This year, Ukraine has already received €10.9 billion in international assistance. This includes IMF funds, EU funds under the Ukraine facility programme and funds from other partners.

Another key source of financing includes frozen Russian funds. We are glad that our partners are actively involved in this process. In July, Ukraine will receive the first €1.5 billion in revenues from frozen Russian assets. Some 10% of these funds will be used for reconstruction and restoration and the rest will mainly go towards defence needs. In addition, G7 countries have agreed to provide €50 billion, which will be covered by the profits from the frozen Russian sovereign assets. The G7 decision is an unambiguous, clear signal for Russia that partners are ready to support Ukraine in the long term. I take this opportunity to thank the Chairman, Deputy Flanagan, for his personal involvement and for his support of the Ukrainian position that made this decision possible. We truly hope that our partners will not stop halfway and Ukraine will rightfully get all the €300 billion of frozen Russian assets.

Regrettably, the economic situation remains extremely dire, even considering recent positive decisions. That is why we need all our partners, including Ireland, to increase their financial support for Ukraine. Last week, the third Ukraine Recovery Conference was held in Berlin to address the vital priorities of Ukraine's recovery and reconstruction. It was a great success, with over 1,000 participants, and resulted in over 100 international agreements worth approximately €16 billion. These agreements will cover projects in the energy sector, the defence industry, the restoration of social and critical infrastructure, the mobilisation of human capital and economic recovery. In addition, memorandums were signed on decentralised electricity production, increasing the use of renewable energy sources, introducing energy-efficient technologies, building smart grids and restoring hydroelectric power plants.

It is important to note that Irish companies, CRH and Kingspan, participated in the conference. Their presence in Ukraine and active investment activity - over €350 million - is another powerful signal that even during wartime, Ukraine is capable of providing investment opportunities to international partners.

Restrictions on Russian oil, including the EU embargo and the G7 price cap, have cost the aggressor more than €105 billion. Russia still manages to acquire technologies and equipment, such as chips and microcircuits, through a network of suppliers and circumvents international sanctions regimes. Lowering the oil price cap to $30 per barrel, gradually restricting access to technology and strengthening market pressure will limit Russia's military power potential and, consequently, the Kremlin's aspirations to wage wars of aggression.

Despite all efforts, Ukraine is still one of the most mined countries in the world: 156,000 km2 remain potentially dangerous because of Russian mines and unexploded ordnance.

This is about 26% of the total area of Ukraine, which is equal to almost twice the area of Ireland. Approximately 6 million people in Ukraine deal with the danger to their lives and health presented by mines.

Ireland is an active participant in the international demining coalition. Irish Defence Forces have already provided demining training and two mine flails that Ukraine is actively using. However, the scale of contamination is such that, according to the World Bank, the complete set of humanitarian demining works will cost more than €37 billion and will take approximately ten years. The use of new technologies can significantly reduce the costs and timeframe. We hope that Ireland will use its expertise and manufacturing capabilities and will provide more training and the necessary demining equipment.

Dear members of the committee, while the fight against Russian aggression is the priority for us, membership of the EU remains one of the key goals for us too. Ukrainians have been committed to our European integration course for the ten years since the 2014 revolution of dignity. Ukraine has made substantial progress in implementing the recommendations outlined in the European Commission's report across all four specified steps, demonstrating unwavering dedication to ongoing European integration reforms, including its anti-corruption efforts. A detailed report was transmitted to the committee prior to this meeting. Ukraine successfully completed all the steps mentioned by the European Commission for further progress on the EU accession path, in particular, adopting the EU’s negotiating framework for Ukraine and holding the first intergovernmental conference, which will officially start the EU-Ukraine negotiation process. We thank Ireland for its persistent support of Ukraine’s path to full membership of the EU. We count on Ireland’s further advocacy and assistance on this path.

Dear members of the committee, the real border between Ukraine and Russia is not merely on the battlefield. It is a line that separates a world governed by law, freedom and democracy from one where powerful individuals impose their will without regard for others. Ukraine's success in prevailing against Russia's war of annihilation would not only ensure its own security but also significantly contribute to the security of Europe as a whole. This is not just Ukraine's struggle; it is a global fight for the values we hold dear. The security of Ukraine is intrinsically linked to the security of Europe. In recent times, even Ireland has witnessed a concerning surge in hostile Russian activity as the Kremlin intensifies its covert operations not only within Ukrainian borders but across the entirety of the European Union and beyond.

I have no doubt but that this war has served as an awakening moment for Europe, challenging everyone to re-evaluate their mindsets. Since the advance of 24 February 2022, it has become evident that providing military and financial assistance to Ukraine is not merely an obligation but a fundamental shift in Europe's perspective. The perpetrator of the war must be held accountable for every crime of this war.

Only from fair responsibility can an historic chance to heal from aggression arise. Russia must go through full and principled responsibility for the unleashed war. It must pay for all the damage that was caused by this aggression.

I stress that as we confront the challenges before us, together we will inscribe the next chapter of European history, a chapter defined by freedom, dignity and the unyielding spirit of the Ukrainian people. Our journey towards a peaceful and free future is not one we undertake alone but as partners in the common fight for democratic values. I thank the committee. Go raibh maith agaibh.

I thank the ambassador for her comprehensive overview. She mentioned a wide range of pursuits, all of which amount to a crisis for the people in Ukraine and some of which directly relate to Ireland's activities on the international stage and the assistance, help and support we can provide, and can continue to provide, in this hour of great need. I will now open matters to the floor.

The ambassador is welcome before the committee and I thank her for her comprehensive statement of where we are at the moment. I can hear the upset in her voice and it must be horrendous for her to be so far away and to know what is going on in her country. I offer my full solidarity.

It was welcome to hear the ambassador's description of the peace summit in Switzerland and the progress there on nuclear safety and food security. She referred to it as an inaugural summit. Will she outline how she sees that developing?

When the ambassador was most recently before the committee, we spoke about the children who were kidnapped. What kinds of psychological services are available to those who have been returned? I am sure they will need psychological services for many years to come after the trauma they suffered. The same is true of the families of the children who have not yet been returned.

The ambassador said that an area approximately twice the size of Ireland has been destroyed by mines. That is horrendous. When the ambassador was most recently before the committee, I referenced older people in Ukraine who had lived through the Second World War. The war in Gaza is ongoing. People who were outed in 1948 are now being bombed and hunted. It is horrendous. Has Ireland pledged to increase its assistance in demining? Has the ambassador any further information about Ireland's increased contribution in that regard?

The ambassador and I previously spoke about the repair and maintenance of the electricity grid. I see that Russia has destroyed 80% of the thermal power generation. It is criminal. Are there any updates on attempts to bring President Putin and Russia to the International Criminal Court and the International Court of Justice so they can be held to account for their war crimes? How is Ireland supporting Ukraine in that regard? Could we do more? Is there anything more the ambassador would like us to do?

The summit was the inaugural summit and brought together more than 100 countries and four international organisations.

The world community demonstrated to Russia that we are together and need to find a peaceful solution to restore peace and justice in the world. I am sure that Russia, Putin and the Kremlin take these signals very seriously. That was the reason Putin made a statement and ultimatum on the eve of the summit. Some countries did not sign the joint communiqué due to their position on some issues. However, this joint communiqué is open for signing. Other countries can sign it a little later.

On children, according to our data, which is not confirmed, 700,000 Ukrainian children were deported from the territory of Ukraine. We have only approximately 20,000 documented cases. Of course, we provide psychological and other kinds of assistance to the 600 children who were returned to Ukraine. The Bring Kids Back UA coalition should work more actively in order to return our children back to Ukraine. What Russia is doing right now is re-educating the Ukrainian children who were deported to Russia. It bans them from speaking any Ukrainian and brainwashes these children. It can be imagined what parents feel and how they live knowing that their children were deported and some of them were forcibly adopted. That was the reason the International Criminal Court, ICC, issued an order against Putin and the Russian commissioner on children's rights who, as members know, illegally adopted Ukrainian children. There are some other cases of illegal adoption by Russian officials. Unfortunately, the situation regarding the return of children needs a stronger response from the international community. Ireland has joined the Bring Kids Back UA coalition. We hope Ireland will participate more actively in it.

With regard to demining, as I mentioned, Ireland provided military training for humanitarian demining and two pieces of equipment. A few enterprises in Ireland produce demining equipment. On the Ukrainian side, the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine is interested in getting more demining equipment.

I underline once again that this is humanitarian demining. Our farmers plan, sow grain and work in the fields. Our people move freely in the cities. Our civilians have to live normally but it is impossible, unfortunately. Can you imagine a mined area of 156,000 sq. km? It is huge.

On electricity, as I mentioned, 80% of thermal stations were destroyed and some 50% of all capacity in the energy sector has been destroyed. Civilians in Ukraine now live almost without electricity. We supply electricity to civilians for just four or five hours per day. They live without electricity for 18 or 19 hours a day. It is summer now but, unfortunately, this winter and autumn will be extremely difficult for our civilians because our winters are very cold. We will face a future problem with the heating system and everything else. We need to rebuild and recover energy infrastructure as soon as possible before wintertime.

On accountability, Ireland joined our motion to the International Court of Justice, ICJ. If I am not mistaken, last year, Ireland gave financial aid of approximately €3 million to the ICC for its investigations. Ireland participates very actively in that regard, giving a voluntary contribution of €150,000 to the ICC, in addition to that €3 million.

Good afternoon to the ambassador and her team. I thank her for her excellent opening statement. I also acknowledge members of the diplomatic community who are present in the Public Gallery. It is the fullest I have seen the Public Gallery in four years. It is great to see such support and solidarity among the diplomatic community.

I agree with the ambassador entirely on what she outlined regarding Putin having no interest whatsoever in negotiation, just capitulation. She has summed it up perfectly. If Putin were interested in peace, he would not have started the war in the first place and he would not be continuing the war. If he is genuinely interested in peace, all he has to do is withdraw his troops and the war ends. Russia is a big enough country. It does not need any more land. I agree entirely with the ambassador on that.

I have about four questions. The first relates to the recent peace conference in Switzerland. Has a date been set for a second conference? If the ambassador knows that, it would be great to hear it. The ambassador mentioned that there are 17 formal bilateral agreements between Ukraine and other countries. I notice Ireland is missing from that list.

Are negotiations ongoing to produce a bilateral agreement? Are negotiations scheduled? If there were to be an agreement between Ireland and Ukraine, would this be welcomed?

My next question concerns North Korean support for Russia. I am very concerned about this situation. There have been reports of 5 million artillery shells moving towards Russia. What would be the thoughts of the ambassador in this regard?

My last question is quite a technical one. As the ambassador is aware, discussions are under way in Ireland on lethal and non-lethal aid. Ireland is giving Ukraine only non-lethal aid and quite a lot of money to purchase non-lethal stores such as communications, medical and transport equipment and fuel. My view, and that of several Members of Parliament here, is that air defence should be included in that non-lethal category, particularly because the ammunition being targeted at the Ukrainian energy network consists of missiles and unmanned drones. It is not possible to have a lethal effect against something that is not alive. My view is that we should include air defence radars and air defence interceptor equipment and technology in the non-lethal category.

Were Ireland to purchase air defence equipment, could it be technically ensured by Ukraine that it would only be deployed around Kyiv, for instance, so it would only be possible to use it in a non-lethal capacity? We know Kyiv is being attacked by non-living pieces of metal flying through the air. Would it be welcomed if Ireland were to include air defence technology in the non-lethal aid category?

I have more of a comment than a question to finish. The current programme for Government is quite restrictive regarding the amount of assistance we can give to Ukraine. I very much look forward to the next programme for Government having much more latitude and supporting Ukraine even more than we already do.

Those are my four questions. The first concerned the date for a second peace conference. The second was whether a bilateral agreement between Ireland and Ukraine would be welcomed. The third was on the ambassador's concerns regarding North Korean ammunition supply to Russia. The last was on the air defence aspect and whether the ambassador could reassure the committee that if such aid were provided, it would be used exclusively in a non-lethal fashion. I thank the ambassador very much.

I thank the Deputy for his questions. Regarding the next peace summit, the date for this has not yet been arranged. According to the information I got from my capital, the date will be announced a little later.

Turning to a security agreement, yes, we have 17 of them. As I mentioned, Ireland joined the declaration of the G7 which presumes the signing of such an agreement. I hope we will start this process of discussing and drafting such an agreement soon. Of course, this agreement would be with Ireland, which is a neutral country, and it would focus more on other issues rather than on military assistance. Today, a delegation from Ireland is in Ukraine undertaking political consultations, etc. I hope there will be a discussion on the possibility of concluding such an agreement with Ukraine.

This is under way. We are working with the Department of Foreign Affairs in respect of it.

Regarding Russian co-operation with North Korea, as we can see, Putin is losing more and more partners. North Korea is one of Russia's reliable partners. By the end of 2023, according to our information, North Korea had supplied 1 million rounds of ammunition. This figure has now reached 5 million rounds. I do not remember the quantity of ballistic missiles that have been supplied, but I can provide the committee with the number of such missiles a little later. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to stop North Korea from doing this or to cut this supply chain from it to Russia. There is no doubt that these ammunition rounds and ballistic missiles are being used to kill our civilians.

This is another reason that we need air defence systems. Our President was very vocal and clear about our need in this regard from the beginning. He reiterated it a few months ago after Russia started new and massive attacks on the Kharkiv region and the city of Odesa. Kharkiv was the second largest city in Ukraine, with a population of almost 2 million. This was before the full-scale invasion. Of course we feel the lack of air defence systems. We need to protect our cities and civilians. I am not an expert, but air defence systems are not lethal weapons. We would be very grateful to Ireland for providing us with air defence systems and I can assure the committee that we can locate these air defence systems to cover and protect civilian infrastructure and civilians. There is no doubt about this ability.

Unfortunately, Russia has advantages in the air. This is not a request we are making to Ireland, but we need to increase our presence in the air in the form of military jets in order to protect our civilians. Perhaps I may have missed something.

No, those were answers to all my questions. To follow up, I thank the ambassador for her clarification. Ukraine has an obligation to protect its civilian population but Ireland also has a responsibility to protect civilians. What the ambassador said quite clearly, and what I was expecting her to say, is that it is possible for Ireland to purchase air defence systems to provide non-lethal support to protect civilian-populated areas and the energy infrastructure in Ukraine. I thank her for clarifying this point. If any policymakers are listening, this is an important message to get out there.

I welcome the ambassador and her team. I thank her for her presentation.

The ambassador covered much ground with my colleague. I will ask some questions on other matters. I will zero in on the nuclear power plant. The ambassador stated that seven pillars of nuclear safety and security have been compromised in Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant.

Sorry. It might be my Cork accent. The ambassador said that seven pillars of nuclear safety and security have been compromised at the nuclear power plant. Physical integrity is one. I understand the second is that safety and security systems are not functional. The rest are: staff being safe and secure; off-site power supply; uninterrupted supply chains; on-site and off-site radiation monitoring; and reliable communications with the regulator and others. The ambassador is saying that all those seven pillars are gone. Can she explain what is happening and what the risk with this power plant is? It has six nuclear reactors whereas Chernobyl had four. It is a modern nuclear plant and would be an awful lot safer than Chernobyl. This is something that is not spoken about, but the ambassador highlighted it in her presentation.

The situation is that this is one of the largest plants in Europe. Zaporizhzhia is currently under control of the Russian army. Employees of this station were taken hostage at the very beginning – just after the occupation, let us say, of this power plant – and Russia still holds them even now. The Russian army and military forces weaponised this nuclear power plant. As for today, they have located weapons literally on the roof of this nuclear plant. Quite often, they shell the nuclear power plant. They damaged not the roof but the cover, let us say, of this nuclear power plant a few times. In the case of explosion or real damage to the plant, not only Ukraine but also the rest of Europe will be affected by it.

As well as Russia itself, or at least some regions of it. As the Deputy knows, the Kremlin and Putin do not care about their own population. They have bunker for themselves. What can happen with the Russian population or with Russian people is not a matter of concern for Russian authorities. It seems it is very clear. Russia uses most sources of the budget for military use, for producing and manufacturing weapons and ammunition. It just finances war against Ukraine, not its population. Most of the Russian population lives in poverty. Russia's people are quite poor.

First, as I mentioned, we have completed all recommendations made by the European Commission. We hope, in the end of this month, the EU will take a decision officially to open negotiations with Ukraine on full membership. We will move further. We will get from the EU Commission our plan of what to do – our homework. I hope that Moldova will get the same decision to open negotiations, and we will move further.

Earlier this week, some equipment - military vehicles - was sent to Ukraine, specifically 20 4X4s, two ambulances and eight low loaders. I have been told there is a huge need for more of that kind of equipment – ambulances, buses, trucks and so on. Perhaps the committee could help with that and put out a call to people across Ireland who have vehicles like that which are not being used. They will be sent to Ukraine to help with people who are injured and people who need that kind of support. What kind of help is required in respect of vehicles like that? Can Europe and Ireland do more in that regard?

I thank the Deputy for asking about that. We get these vehicles sent to Ukraine and, unfortunately, we need more support. We constantly send our list of, not requirements, but needs, to the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Department of housing. We need ambulances because, as the Deputy understands, ambulances are under attack all the time. We got many from Ireland; however, many ambulances were destroyed by attacks. We also need civil equipment for building fortifications in order to protect our settlements, cities and villages from offensive attacks. We also need energy equipment, as I mentioned, medical equipment, medicine, construction vehicles, demining equipment again, and vehicles for servicing the grid. As I mentioned, we constantly send a list, which we get from the capital. We send it to the Irish authorities. There are constant and permanent needs because we are fighting every single day. Every single day, Russians attack and destroy something. There are constant needs.

People, Irish people and Irish companies can send directly. We can provide all necessary contacts in Ukraine and how to deliver and supply these goods. We have two Irish charity organisations founded by the Ukrainian community here. They collect money and funds and buy things for Ukraine all the time.

One of the organisations has sent over 50 ambulances to Ukraine. The same organisation has also sent excavators. Ukrainian Action in Ireland collected money and bought excavators, which it recently sent to Ukraine. Not only Ukrainians, but also Irish people are doing many things to help Ukraine and Ukrainians on the front line. Those who want to join can join. We would appreciate that because this is our common fight.

The ambassador will note that Deputy Stanton makes an important point in respect of a call from this committee to the private sector to assist in the provision of transport vehicles. The bulk of our meeting is about what the Irish State is doing and what it can do but we are also issuing a direct call to the private sector in this meeting. That is important and I thank Deputy Stanton for raising the issue. It is an issue this committee can continue to work on.

Before we conclude, I have a number of questions, which cover four areas. It is important to set this meeting in context. It is part of a series of meetings with ambassadors from the region on the incredibly difficult and challenging conflict on European soil. Members will be aware that we commenced our deliberations in early 2022 with a meeting with the ambassador of Russia, Mr. Yury Filatov. Unfortunately, on that occasion the committee was treated to a cocktail of misinformation and propaganda to such an extent that it felt a further invitation was unwarranted and, indeed, inappropriate. We are very pleased to have had a number of meetings with the Ukrainian ambassador. We are also very pleased to see, as an act of solidarity, the presence in our Public Gallery of ambassadors from the neighbourhood and region, from the Nordic states, the Baltic states, Moldova and Poland. This is indicative of the strong solidarity and support Ukraine is receiving. We trust that will continue.

I will turn to my questions in those four areas. First, I will address a matter that has previously been referred to, the issue of the children. It is absolutely staggering for us to note that over 700,000 children from Ukraine have been unlawfully abducted, deported, kidnapped or taken against their will. We note the comments of our Taoiseach, Deputy Harris, on this precise issue in Switzerland at the weekend and his highlighting of this totally unacceptable development over recent years. What can a small country like Ireland do in that regard, given that we are some distance from the conflict and that we are small in stature as regards the influence we might bring to bear? Does the ambassador have any specific message to us as to how we might assist in redressing this dreadful horror perpetrated upon the children of Ukraine?

The second issue is that of the frozen assets. I acknowledge what the ambassador has said in that regard with particular reference to statements by G7 leaders on a decision as to how to seize almost €300 billion in Russian state assets frozen across western countries since February 2022.

We acknowledge that, as the ambassador has said, the war of aggression perpetrated by Russia in Ukraine has already done almost €500 billion in damage to infrastructure across Ukraine. That is a staggering figure that is, unfortunately, growing every day. We acknowledge that countries, including Ireland, need to step up our assistance in helping Ukraine win this war for both the democratic future of Europe and our own security. The immediate priority is, of course, to directly aid and assist the people of Ukraine and its Government. I am very keen for the Irish Government to continue to highlight the need to ensure the confiscation of the entire €300 billion, in accordance with international law. I note that, following last weekend's G7 meeting, a sum of €50 billion has been committed but that is not even 30% of the entirety. How best can a country like Ireland assist in that regard in partnership with our EU colleagues and others, including the US, Canada, the UK and beyond? The confiscation of the full amount will signal our resolve to Mr. Filatov, Mr. Putin's representative here in Ireland, and to other authoritarians who may seek to attack their neighbours.

The third issue I wish to raise is the matter of sanctions. The committee has been monitoring what our Department of Foreign Affairs is doing in that regard. The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment may be the lead Department in this respect. The Central Bank also has a role. The ambassador made reference to Russia finding ways to circumvent the restrictions through what are oftentimes less than direct means. With particular reference to Ireland, our financial services, restrictions on exports, visa bans and travel bans, is she satisfied that Ireland is doing all we can do to ensure we are playing our part in what is, on the face of it, a strict sanctions regime against Russia? Are there any issues she would like to raise with us in that regard? Is there any evidence of circumvention, whether direct or otherwise? Are there any issues this committee might be in a position to assist on as regards our monitoring of the strict sanctions regime?

The final issue is one Deputy Berry has already raised, that of demining assistance. This issue has been raised in committee meetings in the past. We were pleased to see that, as the ambassador has said, the Irish Defence Forces have already provided demining training and two mine blades that Ukraine is actively using.

We understand, however, that there are some manufacturing plants in Ireland and that the Irish Defence Forces have expertise in demining other areas, such as the Golan Heights and Africa, on peacekeeping duties in the past. Demining, either through the provision of equipment or training, is clearly an issue that falls into aid of a non-lethal weapon nature. Does the ambassador have any message to the committee on what further assistance the Department of Defence or Óglaigh na hÉireann, including the Army, might be in a position to provide by way of training or the Government procuring further equipment from manufacturing stores in Ireland?

I acknowledge the ambassador's presence and the ongoing work she undertakes for and on behalf of her Government and its people in Ireland. Her leadership and her being on call 24-7 has been quite remarkable in the past two and a half years. This committee continues to wish her all the best in what has been a crisis period for her. I hope that on the next occasion she visits she will have a more favourable and successful report card to discuss with us.

I thank the Chair.

Regarding the coalition on returning children, all together we have to put more pressure on in different international forums and at the bilateral level on Russia for the release of children. There is no other possibility right now for returning children from Russian territory other than putting on more pressure and helping to collect and provide facts and evidence to the ICC to hold Russian criminals to account.

On frozen assets, the Chair will be aware that €1.7 billion in Russian assets were frozen in Ireland. It was a successful step that we got the solution of transferring to Ukraine the interest of these assets, in general everywhere in the world, because Russia is paying for the damage and devastation it has caused. As I mentioned in my statement, unfortunately, our economy and infrastructure need a lot of money for recovery and getting these assets, which total €300 billion, would cover, not most, but quite a lot of the damage.

The imposition of EU sanctions is working, but unfortunately Russia uses loopholes to avoid them and still has access to critical components needed for manufacturing weapons and missiles in the country. Therefore, we need to strengthen the sanctions coalition and close the loopholes as soon as possible. The main priorities are sanctions against Russia's energy sector and the further blocking of the Russian financial sector. Sanctions need to be very harmful to the Russian economy and people. They have to pay. Ireland joined and supported all the sanction packages. We urge all EU member states to impose the next package of sanctions on the energy sector, including the oil industry.

As I mentioned, Ireland participated in the military training of demining forces and we received two pieces of demining equipment, but we need more. I visited one of the enterprises that produces demining equipment and our minister of defence is interested in this equipment. We would appreciate if the Irish would supply or perhaps buy this equipment in the country or invest in or supply more demining machines to Ukraine. Of course that is non-lethal aid.

We need to protect our civilians and provide possibilities for them to work, produce and keep our economy going.

Perhaps I missed something. We need more financial aid, first to recover the energy sector because it is even difficult to think of how Ukrainians will pass through this autumn and winter without electricity. It will be a winter of survival.

What is happening there is barbaric. It is terrible. Thousands of children have been abducted and people have been killed and injured in a war with no real aim except greed, power-grabbing and land-grabbing.

It makes no sense at all and the cost to everyone on all sides is horrendous. What can be done with the funding can be for good and yet it is being ploughed into war with no sign of real peace. It is just horrendous. I have met many people from Ukraine who have come here and I have listened to their stories. They had to flee with what they had and their homes are gone. The same thing is happening in Gaza and in Sudan. It is shocking. The world is in an awful mess.

I thank the Deputy. I will now draw matters to a conclusion. I reiterate the apologies from Senator Joe O'Reilly for his inability to attend the meeting as he is in the Seanad, and from Senator Wilson who was unavoidably absent. Both send their continued good wishes to the ambassador and the people of Ukraine. Deputy Carthy is also in the Chamber, as we can see. He, too, would wish to be here were it not for a clash of schedules between the plenary Parliament and this committee. I thank the ambassador for joining us. I also thank Mr. Dmytro Shchedrin. We look forward to continued engagement and no doubt we will have a further opportunity of meeting in the autumn session. I thank the ambassador.

I remind members that we have some private business to attend to immediately after this meeting. I suggest we move into that pretty rapidly.