SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE ENVIRONMENT, HERITAGE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT debate -
Tuesday, 20 Apr 2010

We are meeting this afternoon to consider the Revised Estimate and output statement for the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government: Vote 25.

On behalf of the select committee I welcome the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy John Gormley, and the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Transport and the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, with special responsibility for horticulture, sustainable travel, and planning and heritage, Deputy Ciarán Cuffe, who was a member of the committee a few weeks ago. He has moved up in the world since he was last here.

I welcome all the officials to the meeting. It is proposed to take opening statements from the Minister and the Minister of State. I will then invite the Opposition spokesperson for Fine Gael, followed by the Labour Party spokesperson following which there will be a general question and answer session. I propose to take all the opening statements together because the discussion will probably cover all the areas. I invite the Minister to make his opening statement on the Estimate and annual output statement for 2010.

Chairman and members, I welcome the opportunity to present my Department's expenditure Estimate for 2010 to the committee. I know committee members are deeply interested in the range of activities pursued by my Department and I look forward very much to our discussions this afternoon.

I am accompanied by the Minister of State, Deputy Ciaran Cuffe who has recently taken on responsibilities relating to the Department. He will also make a brief opening statement on the areas in the Department in which he is involved. Unfortunately, Ministers of State, Deputies Michael Finneran and Áine Brady cannot be with us this afternoon due to the air travel restrictions that have been in place in recent days.

As the committee is aware, the Government has in recent times taken strong action to correct the imbalances in the public finances and these measures are inevitably reflected in the Estimate before us today. We have taken tough decisions and will not shy away from any further such decisions that may be needed to put our finances and the wider economy on a stable foundation for long-term growth.

At the same time as tackling the very difficult public finance position, we are working to maintain, and enhance where possible, essential public services, especially for those in greatest need. The Environment Vote for 2010 amounts to nearly €2.2 billion, a substantial sum by any reckoning or at any time. Backed by these resources, we will intensify further our work to maximise efficiency and to secure optimum value from the money available to us, to deliver the best possible outcomes for our citizens.

The Estimate is complemented by the Department's Annual Output Statement 2010, which details achievement against targets set in the 2009 annual output statement and outlines targets to be achieved with the resources available this year. The committee also has a briefing note which we prepared on the 2010 Estimate as a whole.

I propose, in the time available, to comment on some specific aspects of the Department's Estimate and we can consider others as required in our later general discussion.

Members may be aware that yesterday I launched the Water Services Investment Programme for the period 2010–2012. A sum of €508 million is being provided for investment in water services infrastructure this year. Of this, €415 million is earmarked for local authority water and waste water projects under the water services investment programme, including in the critical area of reducing leakage and conserving our water resources; €93 million is being allocated to the rural water programme, mainly to tackle water quality standards in private group water schemes.

While marginally down on last year's outturn of €512 million, average spending on water services over the period 2009 and 2010 will be up 3% on the 2008 outturn. This continuing high level of expenditure reflects the Government's commitment to protecting our water resources, meeting EU standards for drinking water and waste water treatment and putting critical infrastructure in place to support industrial, commercial and other development. Investment under the programme will also support more than 4,000 jobs in the construction sector this year and many additional jobs in manufacturing, operating and maintaining new infrastructure post completion.

Much has been achieved in recent years in this sector and, with the launch yesterday of the Water Services Investment Programme for the period 2010–2012, we have put in place the platform for continuing progress and success over the next three years. With the finalisation of the first cycle of river basin management plans, the programme aims to prioritise projects that target environmental compliance. It also fully supports economic growth and jobs as envisaged in the Government's policy document, Building Ireland's Smart Economy — A Framework for Sustainable Economic Revival.

The programme details more than 130 contracts and water conservation projects in progress with a value of about €1 billion; some 340 contracts to be progressed to construction over the period 2010–2012 with a value of €1.8 billion; and some 190 schemes and water conservation projects on which planning work will continue.

I have taken the opportunity to make some changes to the format of the programme to bring a new focus and dynamic to providing much-needed infrastructure. This will be achieved primarily by new emphasis on progressing priority contracts within schemes. Contracts that are required to complete those schemes will be completed in due course but not before urgently required contracts elsewhere are finished. This new flexible approach is needed so that we target the environmental and economic priorities that must be met.

I indicated earlier this year that the programme would put a new emphasis on water conservation. The importance of measures to conserve water resources and use them wisely was brought home to us all during the big freeze last January. The programme outlines investment of some €320 million over the next three years on network rehabilitation works. This is more than double the expenditure on water conservation works over the past seven years and I expect this investment to improve considerably our ability to reduce what are very high rates of unaccounted for water.

I have taken the opportunity also to publish in a river basin district format the contracts and schemes to be progressed under the programme. I hope the Deputies opposite have a copy of this document as it shows clearly where the river basin districts are. This clarifies the wider impacts of the investment proposals and shows clearly the response the programme is making to priorities identified in Ireland's first set of river basin management plans prepared under the Water Framework Directive.

In the housing area we have a budget this year of nearly €1.2 billion to spend on a range of measures. This reflects the high importance the Government attaches to the provision of social housing and meeting the needs of homeless people and other vulnerable groups requiring housing support. The Government's strategy in shaping the overall housing Estimate for 2010 has been: (a) to focus necessary adjustments in the areas where there is scope to maintain output through more flexible approaches, and (b) to prioritise the most vulnerable and disadvantaged.

In this regard, the significant transformation of housing programmes under way will continue as the major priority in 2010, with the shift away from new build projects towards initiatives such as leasing. As part of this process, available capital funding will be increasingly targeted at regeneration, special needs housing and improving the environmental performance of the housing stock.

On voluntary housing, the level of funding being provided under the capital assistance scheme this year — up by more than 30% to €145 million — will ensure that we continue to benefit from the capacity and commitment of that sector. In addition, more than €64 million in current expenditure available in 2010 will support borrowing of more than €140 million under the capital loan and subsidy scheme. We will also keep under review the availability of loan finance to approved housing bodies.

Since the launch of the new suite of adaptation grants for older people and people with disabilities in late 2007, the level of demand and activity across all local authorities has been enormous. This is testament to the importance the grants play as part of an overall continuum of care and vital support for independent living at home for the groups at which they are targeted.

I am very pleased, therefore, to be able to say that 2010 will see a further significant increase in funding for the grants, up by 23% to €80 million, giving a total provision of €100 million this year when the local authority contribution is taken into account. It is relevant to note that, of the 11,434 grants paid out last year under the grant schemes, more than 4,200 were for improvements to the fabric of the homes of older people, while nearly 1,300 dealt with mobility problems largely associated with aging.

We have also maintained this year a high level of ambition for local authority regeneration and improvement works in some of the most disadvantaged and neglected areas of the country, aimed at helping to replace failed estates with vibrant, sustainable communities. A new dedicated funding line specifically earmarked for retrofitting and other energy efficiency improvements is being introduced: €45 million is being provided for this in 2010. The introduction of a separate funding line specifically for energy efficiency measures also means that the provision of €195 million — an effective increase of €25 million — for "pure" regeneration projects will go even further in areas such as Limerick and Ballymun.

In the case of Limerick in particular, the Government recently reaffirmed its commitment to the vision outlined in the ten-year regeneration programme. The Limerick regeneration agencies have since completed work on a phase 1 implementation plan which they submitted to my Department this month. To help maintain the momentum, the plan is being considered in my Department and I will bring it to the Government in the coming weeks.

Homelessness is the most extreme form of housing disadvantage and addressing it remains a key focus of the Government, the Minister of State, Deputy Finneran, in particular. This will be a critical year in realising the aims set out in the Government's homeless strategy, The Way Home, with its implementation shifting into a new gear. To help deliver on it, funding for homeless accommodation this year will match the 2009 provision of €56 million, but the allocation marks a substantial increase in real terms.

As regards the main local authority housing programme, the committee will be aware that in advance of the need for downward adjustment in financial provision my Department had been putting in place and continues to put in place a programme of reform that is transforming the way in which social housing supports are delivered. The scale of adjustment in the public finances now required may have added further impetus to the process of change we have been driving, but let no one try to claim fiscal expedience is driving the programme of reform.

By the end of 2009 some 2,000 units of accommodation had been sourced through the long-term leasing initiative. This is a very considerable achievement, but it could and perhaps should have been greater. It can and should be considerably greater this year. While many local authorities have been responsive to the shift in emphasis in social housing delivery, others, including, unfortunately, elected members in some cases, seem rooted in a one-dimensional way of doing business. To them I say bluntly: they do not have that luxury. These authorities have a clear choice to make about the role they see for themselves in the delivery of social housing. While the provision for the main capital programme might be down to €366 million and we can expect output from the programme to fall back, I anticipate that the overall provision will allow an output of approximately 9,000 units. A significant proportion of this figure must come from leasing and the rental accommodation scheme. The extension of long-term leasing arrangements to the voluntary and co-operative sector opens up further possibilities for delivery. In overall terms, this part of the Estimate for 2010 provides us with the right balance of resources to continue working towards the system of flexible and graduated supports which are foreseen in the related policy framework and required to meet the varying forms of housing need people experience.

Like every other sector, the local government sector cannot be immune from the fiscal pressures we face. However, we continue to allocate significant levels of funding to local authorities. For example, there are grants and subsidies allocated to local authorities on current account from central government and the local government fund which will be of the order of €2 billion this year. The non-principal private residence charge, introduced in 2009, broadens the revenue base of local authorities by levying a charge on certain domestic dwellings. The intention is to establish new, relatively stable, local sources of funding. The charge represents an important step change in how local government is financed, with the moneys generated retained by the relevant local authority and spent on local services. From the yield so far, some €62 million can be expected by local authorities from this source this year. On this basis, I am confident that local authorities will have the necessary resources to continue to provide essential services for their areas.

Even in these difficult times, local authorities spend some €11 billion annually and it is essential this money is spent in the most effective and efficient way possible. To further this objective, we have established a review group which mirrors the McCarthy group to undertake an independent examination of local authority efficiency. The group is examining the cost base of local authorities to advance a new efficiency drive, achieve greater value for money and contribute to the over-riding national requirement to address the imbalances in the public finances. The group is engaged in wide-ranging consultation and has met stakeholders, including the local elected member associations and the County and City Managers Association. I look forward to receiving its report by mid-year.

This year we will see the beginning of a major series of changes to the local government system. In particular, a new mayor of Dublin will be directly elected this year. The mayor will bring about tangible beneficial changes across the spectrum of local government activity in Dublin, including for the region's competitiveness and overall economic well-being.

This year we will also see publication of a climate change Bill and the national climate change adaptation framework. In the aftermath of the Copenhagen conference in December and the failure to agree new international arrangements on climate change mitigation, this will be another important year, culminating in the United Nations climate change conference in Cancun, Mexico in November. Work towards a new mitigation framework remains a key issue at international level and in the associated processes my Department continues to give priority to leading negotiations for Ireland on future climate change commitments. Calls for financial support for some of the international negotiation processes will be assessed and funded, where appropriate.

The programme for Government agreed in 2007 and the renewed programme for Government agreed last October include a number of objectives relating to waste management, including a commitment to carry out an international review of waste management plans, practices and procedures and act on its conclusions. Last November I published the report of the consultants engaged to carry out a study to underpin the review. My policy in the area of waste management is focused on moving Ireland away from an over-emphasis on residual waste management and towards a focus on prevention, minimisation and recycling.

Significant progress has been made on the waste agenda in recent years. For example, the overall rate for recovery of municipal waste rose from 9% at the end of the 1990s to 38% at the end of 2008. However, we must consolidate and build on this progress. In this regard, I recently launched a consultation process on a draft Bill which has been approved by the Government for the application of levies to landfills and incinerators. The levies will be designed to ensure material which can be recycled and add value is not drawn to large-scale residual waste treatment facilities. Therefore, it is envisaged that a banded series of levies will be applied to facilities based on capacity. The levies are also seen as a means of driving material away from landfill to meet challenging EU targets.

I recognise that levies are simply a part of a range of measures which will contribute to the development of a sustainable, resource-based waste management policy. In this regard, in the coming weeks I will launch a consultation document which will have as its basis the recommendations made in the consultant's report and set out the various elements being considered as part of the development of a new waste management policy for the country. In this way everyone will have an opportunity to contribute to the development of the Government's waste management policy.

Our natural and built heritage is an invaluable asset which, despite the difficult times, must be protected both in its own right and because of the contribution it makes to supporting employment, attracting tourists and enhancing the quality of people's daily lives. Therefore, I am very pleased that we have been able to increase the total resources for the built and natural heritage this year to almost €57 million, an increase of 6% on last year's outturn.

I have touched on several activities across my Department's broad remit, with particular emphasis on those with significant financial provisions in 2010. My colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Cuffe, will complement what I have said in respect to his area of responsibility. I will be pleased to deal with any matters Members wish to raise.

I will deal with spending issues and policy development in the planning and built heritage areas of the Department. In policy terms, the overarching national planning framework has two main pillars — the national spatial strategy and the comprehensive code of planning legislation. Substantial work is being advanced in both of these areas.

Spatial planning plays a key role in helping to build a comprehensive picture and an evidence-based rationale for future development. It also provides us with key information which enables us to prioritise and target State investment in hard and soft infrastructure and, within the overall vision, to create competitive and dynamic cities and regions which help to improve quality of life in economic, social and environmental terms.

To assist in this process, the Department is finalising an update and outlook on the 2002 national spatial strategy which provides us with a strategic planning framework within which sustainable development will be delivered up to 2020. The review will focus on reaffirming the key principles and implementation priorities designed to deliver more balanced social, economic and physical development between regions, thereby contributing to our economic recovery, ensuring the prioritisation of resources to facilitate sustainable growth in our gateways and regions and improving overall competitiveness.

The national spatial strategy update is also closely tied to the ongoing statutory reviews of the regional planning guidelines. The importance of the review of the guidelines to the spatial strategy cannot be overstated because they translate the strategy's principles into regional and local policies and targets. The reviewed and updated regional planning guidelines are being prepared for adoption this summer. I am confident that an evidence-based and modernised strategic planning framework will play a central role in our future economic revival.

Substantial progress has been made with the Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2009 in the last year. Having passed all Stages in Seanad Éireann, the Bill is advancing through the Dáil, with the aim of having it enacted before the summer recess. It will make a number of key changes to the planning code. It will provide for the introduction of a more strategic, phased and evidence-based approach to zoning in development plans; core strategies to the plans which will further support links to regional and national policy; and measures to address European Court judgments against the State relating to environmental impact assessments and appropriate assessments under the habitats directive. I expect the Dáil Committee Stage consideration of the Bill to commence in the next few weeks. I look forward to engaging with many Deputies on the current proposals and any amendments that may be tabled during the debate.

The delivery of infrastructural projects depends heavily on the speedy processing of planning applications through the planning system. An Bord Pleanála has a key role in helping to ensure Ireland's development and economic well-being are sustainable and sustained in the medium to longer term. Its 2010 Exchequer grant of €13.03 million represents a 15% reduction on the Exchequer outturn of €15.33 million in 2009. The board implemented a range of cost-saving measures last year, in terms of pay and non-pay expenditure items, on foot of the report on public service numbers and expenditure programmes. The Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2009 proposes to assist the board in achieving greater efficiencies of operation. For example, the quorum of board members will be reduced from three to two for the purposes of determining certain classes of routine cases. Other forms of flexibility and efficiency are also being considered. The board's total outturn for 2009, taking both planning fees and the Exchequer subvention into account, has been estimated at €20.1 million, representing a significant decrease on the 2008 outturn of €26.3 million. The board envisages that overall expenditure in 2010 will further reduce to approximately €17.2 million, which will represent a 14% reduction on the outturn for 2009 and a 35% reduction on the 2008 figure. The board is working to achieve its strategic target of determining 90% of cases within 18 weeks and minimise any delays that might affect decision-making on infrastructural projects. I welcome the sustained improvement in its performance, including the increase in the 18-week compliance rate from 36% in September 2009 to 50% in December 2009. I anticipate further improvements this year.

Total funding for the built heritage in 2010 amounts to €25.133 million. This money will be spent on regenerating Ireland's historic properties, supporting vital jobs in the heritage conservation field, promoting local pride in communities, boosting tourism and protecting our national heritage. It will support a range of grant schemes, including the local authority conservation, civic structures conservation and significant places of public worship grant schemes. Restoration and maintenance works, funded under the built heritage capital programme, will be undertaken on major properties in State care such as the Botanic Gardens, the Phoenix Park, the Great Blasket Islands, Clonmacnoise and Nenagh Castle. I am keen to ensure local authorities whose conservation and heritage officers are best placed to act as guardians of their respective areas' heritage will continue to be supported in their valuable work which involves connecting people with their heritage and facilitating the payment of local authority conservation grants. Such an approach allows the financial and planning onus on owners of protected structures to be complemented by a State commitment.

Work was undertaken in 2009 on various heritage policies and programmes, including the world heritage programme, the Government policy on architecture 2009-15, the national inventory of architectural heritage and the advice series booklets. This work will be further advanced in 2010. Priority works under the policy on architecture will be initiated in the important areas of built environment research, public awareness, policy development in urban design and sustainable development. This will be a key year for the world heritage programme. Ireland's new world heritage tentative list will be submitted to UNESCO. Progress will also be made with property nominations to the world heritage list.

While a reduction in funding for archaeological heritage has been necessary, the 2010 provision will ensure grant schemes for archaeological research and other key activities such as rescue excavations will continue at a high level. Work is continuing on the drafting of a new monuments Bill which will consolidate and modernise the legislative framework governing all aspects of archaeology. The intention is to publish the Bill this year.

The Heritage Council will continue to fulfil its role as a promoter of Ireland's heritage, as defined in the Heritage Act 1995, by proposing policies and priorities in respect of national heritage. A total of €8.48 million is being provided for the council this year. The council will achieve its work effectively and efficiently through cost saving initiatives, targeted grant schemes and the promotion of Ireland's heritage through a range of initiatives such as the successful heritage week programme.

The foreshore consent process for offshore energy projects, mineral extraction and major commercial ports, responsibility for which was transferred to my Department in January this year, will undergo major reform in the next few years. The 2010 provision for foreshore management is just over €1 million. Steps are being taken to streamline the consent process and provide greater certainty and clarity as to its operation. Some of this will be done through improved administrative procedures. Work will commence later this year on primary legislation to integrate current consents and planning procedures with a view to delivering an integrated, fast-track, transparent and participative consent process for the onshore and offshore elements of these projects. We are also looking at how the approach to strategic planning on land, through the development of the national spatial strategy, can be replicated in the marine environment through the development of a marine spatial plan.

I will be happy to deal with any specific matters members may wish to raise.

Before I call Deputy Hogan, I would like to ask the Minister of State a question. He mentioned the statutory review of the regional planning guidelines, as well as the update and outlook on the 2002 national spatial strategy. The strategy was drafted and prepared approximately a decade ago. What is happening now? Was there an opportunity to engage in public consultation? If there was, I must have missed it. Was it a statutory process? Was it done in-house? It is obvious that the strategy sets the framework for the regional planning guidelines. Many are of the view that the strategy needs more than an update. It might need a full review.

My understanding is that we do not need to invent the wheel completely as regards the national spatial strategy. We see it as more of a refresh than a complete restart from scratch. The strategy is a strong document which clarifies where we wish to concentrate economic development at national level. We are seeking to revisit it because it is eight years old. We can review its success in the various counties and areas. As we see it, after eight years it is time to refresh it. That is separate from the county and city development plans which have to go through a statutory procedure every six years. Particularly in light of the impending passage of the planning and development Bill we want to ensure tighter, more focused plans at county and city level. There will be consultation that will feed into the national spatial strategy but that is through the regional planning guidelines process. The national spatial strategy is a 20 year document and we are only half way through that process. We do not revisit and reinvent that every five years. It is the long-term national document. The county and city development plans are the six-year view and overview.

We are refreshing. What we are looking at is using the most recent census data to see where the national spatial strategy is working, and what is not working. There are some early data suggesting we are not reaching the population levels anticipated within the core cities identified in the national spatial strategy. That might inform refreshing the strategy. In terms of public consultation, the county and city development plans are where it is at. That is where the main emphasis of public consultation lies. At this stage, we do not envisage opening out the national spatial strategy to complete root and branch consultation.

I am a little disappointed in that because the last decade was quite turbulent in terms of economic development. The county development plans will have to take account of the regional planning guidelines which will have to flow from the master plan. We are getting an opportunity to make a submission at ground level but we cannot make a submission on the overall framework.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Cuffe, to the meeting and wish him well in his new role and responsibilities. As a former member of the committee, I am sure the experience he gained here will be of enormous benefit to him in his new role.

I welcome the announcement yesterday by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, in respect of the water investment programme. I noticed that he used the old trick of trebling a rolling fund over a three year period. That is an indication that money is getting scarce. Nevertheless, the objectives he has set out are laudable. If we could do more on that front to assist the water investment programme and waste water, as we have to meet a target in 2015, that would be desirable. The target date of 2015 appeared to be a long way off in the last programme but it is getting closer.

Will the Minister discuss the water metering programme in the programme for Government which he indicated would roll out from 1 January 2011. What timescale is envisaged? What is the cost? Does the Minister contemplate an interim measure in respect of flat rate charges for local government to pay for this project?

The roll-out of the waste water management system launched yesterday appears to be cumbersome. The processes which have to be undertaken are tortuous for local government. The information available to me suggests that of the €510 million provided for this year, in the first two months of the year less than €50 million has been sanctioned. The nine stages that must be undertaken in respect of design, between the Department and the local authorities, are not working and a new system is required to improve the process. We have made suggestions on how it can be improved under a new separate entity called Irish Water, whereby local authorities would be agents of that entity, under which we would be able to attract investment for major projects from various funding arrangements off balance sheet to meet our objectives in 2015.

In regard to housing, there is serious concern given the increased number of people on housing waiting lists. This is accentuated by the fact that many people have distressed mortgages. I know the financial institutions are trying to conceal the truth because if they report significant amounts of property in negative equity it has implications for what the Government may do in respect of the taxpayers' requirement to fund them to an even greater extent. Is a home support scheme being contemplated by the Government? There is NAMA for the financial institutions. I will be interested to hear what the Government has in mind for those who are under pressure due to job losses and distressed mortgages.

In regard to leasing arrangements, there are a number of initiatives in other jurisdictions. An arrangement here to make additional moneys available to the Department to enable some level of equity would help people get on the property ladder. In Northern Ireland and the UK a system is in place. Under the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act, the Minister has power to introduce a step by step approach to enable people get on the property ladder. Has any advance been made on the incremental purchase arrangement provided for in the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009? Will the Minister indicate how the leasing programme is progressing? Given that much property is lying idle, if those properties were to be married with people on waiting lists, through the leasing programme, what ultimately, after 20 or 25 years, would be the outcome for the State in terms of holding on to those properties? That is the particular problem that has not been addressed in this scheme whereas it will cost the State a fortune to rehabilitate the properties and take them on board in 20 or 25 years' time.

There were eight regeneration projects in the Dublin area that were part of a public private partnership that experienced problems. Those projects stretch from Croke Villas to O'Devaney Gardens, and include Dominick Street and St. Michael's Estate. At what stage are those projects and are they likely to come to fruition through another vehicle or through a revised public private partnership?

On waste management, the Minister is quite controversial in regard to these matters in his own constituency. I am surprised that he should concentrate so much on his own constituency. Where stands the Poolbeg incinerator project? Will the project go ahead? Has the Minister succeeded in stopping it? If there is a breach of contract between Dublin City Council and the project is there a financial liability in the Estimates which would expose the taxpayer? What is the present position on that? I will not speak about the incineration levy as there will be an opportunity to do so when speaking on legislation or in the committee. As of 20 April 2010 what is Government policy on waste? I do not want to hear the Minister's opinion, I know what it is, but what is the status of Government policy and has it changed in the past five years?

On local government, I welcome the efficiency review carried out under the chairmanship of Mr. Pat McLoughlin. We have published our proposals on bringing together much activity at local and community level that should come under the accountable structures of local government. I welcome the efficiency review in light of that report which will come to the Minister in June.

We were promised a White Paper on local government in 2008 but there is no sign of it. The Minister has changed tack since the local elections and his attitude to local government is now more regional than local. It is understandable, given his party's electoral performance, that he has shifted ground.

Has the Minister set a date for the election of a Dublin Mayor in view of the fact that we just have the heads of a Bill at this stage. When will the Bill come before the House and when will the election take place?

Development levies represent a big problem for local government, which finds it difficult to have the necessary resources to execute the contracts entered into with developers. This might come under the remit of the Minister of State, Deputy Cuffe. Unfinished estates, development levies and the general financial position of local government are intertwined. We need to think of a way to help local authorities execute the contracts, implement the social and affordable programmes promised under Part V and think of where local authorities will get the money to finish estates.

Properties are now under the National Asset Management Agency, NAMA, and I am sure it is in its interest to complete these estates and to realise a dividend for the taxpayer. I note the Minister is concentrating his powers under planning and development legislation to ensure this happens to the exclusion of all other properties. I understand where the Minister is coming from; I do not agree with it but nevertheless it is where the Minister is hell-bent on going. The development levies issue is one for local authorities. Will the Minister tell us the amount owed by local authorities in development levies and what is the value of contracts into which they entered under the housing provisions?

I welcome the climate change Bill which the Minister will publish this year. The target of 3% reduction per annum is largely being met by the lower level of activity but we have to reach our ambitious targets as enshrined in the European Union agreement and I welcome that legislative format to force Irish citizens, through Parliament, to implement those changes.

The Minister is aware that I have an interest in the Dublin Docklands Development Authority. He has some reports that he is likely to publish during May. I am sure he and Professor Brennan will deal with the manner in which decisions were made over the years and the process gone through to make them. I am sure they will have a good look at the corporate governance issues that emerged during that sorry debacle. Has the Minister included in his Estimate for 2010 a liability to the taxpayer arising from what additional moneys will be required to deal with the financial difficulties of the Dublin Docklands Development Authority?

I was interested in the Chairman's question to the Minister of State, Deputy Cuffe, on the national spatial strategy. Is there a possibility that the Dáil or Seanad will have an opportunity to discuss a revised document in due course that will emanate from the Department under the national spatial strategy refresher? Perhaps there is a democratic opportunity for the Dáil and Seanad or this committee to examine even the heads of a proposed strategy and to be consulted on it if the Minister of State feels it is appropriate to do so.

As a member of the Oireachtas Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security, the Minister of State will be aware that legislation was proposed on foreshore licensing which had a major impact on renewable energies and the rolling out of various investment programmes that were in the pipeline. Is this the responsibility of the Minister of State or the Department? When will we see this legislation being rolled out?

The Minister referred to the non-principal private residence charge introduced in 2009. Genuine people who paid this charge in September or October 2009 and acknowledged they owned a second property believed they were paying it for a year. However, the small print in the legislation stated it was a payment for the remainder of 2009 only. They are now being billed for 2010. It is most unfair on those who had genuinely acknowledged, and paid up, their liabilities in this regard. What is being done about those who did not own up to owning second properties in 2009 and are doing so now? Are they liable for the 2010 charge only? What about the third category of people, namely, those who have not acknowledged that they own second properties and have not registered them anywhere or paid the €200 charge? Is it sleight of hand that people became liable for the charge in October and found out that they were liable again from 1 January 2010 despite the fact that they thought they paid for a year?

The Minister also referred to the climate change conference in Copenhagen in December and a United Nations climate change conference in Mexico, if one does not mind, in November. This is becoming a junket. What effects did the volcanic eruptions in Iceland have on climate change compared to the contribution to climate change for which farmers or others housing cattle are blamed? Will the Minister compare the effect of the volcanic eruption on climate change to that of a farmer with 20 cattle in a shed, which some people state contribute to climate change?

I will begin by working my way through a number of issues presented in the Estimates. The Minister, Deputy Gormley, spoke about a significant increase and that he was very pleased we will see a further significant increase in 2010 in funding for grants by up to 23% to €80 million, giving a total provision of €100 million. The Estimates show the provisional outturn was €94 million in 2009 and they show the same sum for 2010. My reading of it is that there is no change in the grant programme in total. Perhaps the Minister's press release does not reflect the actual figures in the spreadsheet. I would like clarification on that when the Minister responds. I see an official shaking his head but the figure is there in front of me.

We ended up in an incredible mess in 2007 and 2008 when the housing aid for the elderly and the disabled person's grant schemes were combined. I remember the Minister of State, Deputy Finneran's predecessor stating at the time that the administration of the disabled person's grant scheme and the housing grant scheme would be brought together under the local authority. It was crazy to have two different grants, one from the HSE and another from the local authority, to get a house rewired and a stair lift installed when both jobs needed to be done at the same time. It was a very welcome development to bring the programmes together. However, although the two programmes were brought together, the budgets were kept separate. This meant a further workload for the local authorities in 2007 and 2008 and the housing aid for the elderly programme, which became part of the local authority programme, ran out of funding in July 2008. There are legacy issues from this and I am interested to know how much of the €94 million deals with them. Every local authority here ran out of funding in the middle of 2008 because of the way the funding was dealt with and the budget in 2009 dealt with a backlog from 2008. I would be interested if the Minister could clarify how much money the HSE has for housing aid for the elderly. As I understand it, the scheme was supposed to be tightened up. Is the Minister's Department continuing to give money to the HSE under it? Is there still a secondary funding ring? The initial intention was to create one type of funding programme, operated by the local authorities, to deal with the house adaptations and improvements to be made under the scheme. The level of expenditure in this area is somewhat disappointing. I had hoped to see greater expenditure. The housing adaptation programme leads to massive improvements in the quality of life of those who benefit from such works. Elderly people can have stair lifts installed, bathrooms converted and ramps built to allow them to remain in their communities at an old age. Small builders and contractors are badly looking for jobs of this nature which may cost €10,000, €15,000 or €24,000. If we want to provide a stimulus at local level — one that in this context will be of great advantage to people living in the community — perhaps more money could be directed to this area. Later this afternoon I will mention where the money might be found. I ask the Minister to clear up this matter.

When the Minister was speaking about social housing, he said, "While many local authorities have been responsive to the shift in emphasis in social housing delivery, others, including, unfortunately, elected members in some cases, seem rooted in a one dimensional way of doing business." The only one-dimensional way of doing things is the Government's way. Both Fianna Fáil and the Green Party are concentrating on the one dimensional approach to social housing leasing initiatives. A recent letter from the office of the Minister of State, Deputy Finneran, baldly stated future housing delivery would be funded through the leasing initiative and that capital investment would decrease in the years to come. Therefore, Government policy seems to be that the social housing leasing initiative is the only show in town. The only group which can be accused of singular thinking is the Government. I have to rebut the Minister's earlier comments, unless they were directed at the Government.

I would like to make a number of suggestions. The social housing leasing initiative was established to find vacant private properties. The vast majority of the 2,000 houses sourced through the initiative are not vacant private properties, rather they are vacant affordable houses that were developed a number of years ago to be sold to people who were unable to buy houses on the open market. They are not the properties the initiative was initially established to find.

It is possible for the Government to find the money needed for the disabled person's grants scheme and other schemes. I will mention an approach that for some time I have been calling on the Minister of State, Deputy Finneran, and the Department to adopt. Some of those on the affordable housing list are financially in a position to purchase houses. They have been given mortgage approval in principle. We could facilitate them through a rent to buy programme. In the next two or three years we could allow them to move into these vacant affordable houses and at the end of that period give them the option to buy these houses at a discount on the rent they would pay over two or three years. We should have a proper house price database, as promised in the programme for Government. It should be based on real sale prices rather than on what auctioneers and estate agents tell us. If that were in place, we could sell houses on the basis of accurate information on the housing market. We have missed a huge opportunity in this regard. People are prepared to move into and rent vacant properties which can be found all over the country on the basis that they will receive some return on the rent paid after a three-year period. The Minister's presentation on this aspect of the Estimates was based on a very distorted interpretation of how the leasing initiative was performing. The social housing leasing initiative is not performing in line with its initial intent, which was to secure private properties. The attempt to extend the initiative to the affordable housing programme is contaminating the programme even further.

I would like to move on to a couple of other matters. Will the Minister explain why the Affordable Homes Partnership which received €32 million last year is now receiving €21.2 million? No affordable homes are being built around the country. My understanding which is based on a recent circular letter is that the Affordable Homes Partnership is to become the management agency in the leasing of these properties. Is that what the funding will be for? Will this agency which was established to help people to buy homes become a management company? Will it lease homes to people for 20 years and, at the end of that time, give them back to developers? Is that what the Affordable Homes Partnership will do with the money allocated for the year to come? I do not know what else the partnership could be doing. Perhaps the Minister will explain what bang we might get for our buck in this regard. Will the partnership be involved in leasing?

The allocation for the rental accommodation scheme has increased from €83 million last year to €125 million this year. Can the increase be attributed to the use of additional funds for long-term leasing? I cannot understand how rents might be increasing at a time when the country is full of vacant properties. What accounts for the significant increase of between 35% and 40% in the amount of money being provided as rent for landlords across the country? I would be grateful if the Minister could explain this to the committee.

Like Deputy Hogan, I welcome the creation of the review group on efficiencies. An earlier review carried out by Ernst & Young was covered extensively in a recent edition of the Irish Examiner. It showed that the manner in which local authorities spent the funds allocated to them by the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government needed to be the subject of major examinations. As I understand it, some local authorities had agreed contracts to spend money before the Department gave them the finances to do so. It seems the Department gave funds to local authorities, even though they had not provided proper project management plans for the developments they were undertaking. I hope we do not have to wait for the recommendations of the new review group before the specific suggestions made in the Ernst & Young review are implemented.

My final question relates to an issue I raised with the Minister in the Dáil at the start of last year. It relates to the figure of approximately €1.8 billion raised through development levies but which is now locked into bank accounts. The Department has issued a directive to local authorities, instructing them not to spend this money. It is part of a book balancing exercise designed to ensure we will meet the Maastricht criteria. The aim of the collection of this €1.8 billion was to facilitate the improvement of local areas. The money was supposed to be spent on improving water services, recreational areas and other such works. Is this €1.8 billion still locked in? The Minister can correct me if I have the wrong sum. I refer to moneys local authorities collected from developers in order that specific works could be done. Will local authorities continue in 2010 to be prohibited from spending this money which they have on account?

I wish to speak about the water services investment programme announced yesterday. The coverage given to the announcement gave the impression that the Government was focusing more on installing water meters and charging for water than on anything else in the programme. If that is the Government's priority, it is totally wrong.

I want to comment on this matter. The Government's priorities in recent years have been pitched wrongly. My understanding is that, in recent years, up to approximately €500 million was spent on water projects and another €500 million was spent on maintenance of water schemes. However, up to 60% of the publicly produced and treated water in some local authority areas is being lost through leaks. How could this be after all the years of economic growth and the amount of investment in water infrastructure each year? In some areas, more than half of the water produced is going down the drain through leaking pipes and mains.

This would raise the question of how much of the €500 million went into the provision of new water infrastructure for housing estates and properties that are lying empty. In a recent reply to a question of mine, the Minister stated that only €130 million had been spent over seven years on a water conservation subprogramme, including the fixing of leaking mains and pipes within the distribution system. Given the €500 million per year for water projects, €130 million is a tiny amount. I acknowledge that the Minister was not in office for most of the period in question. The housing bubble has stopped, so the focus must be on fixing the existing water infrastructure.

If the Minister is to spend €320 million over three years on water conservation measures, it will be much too little. His whole focus should be on fixing leaking pipes and mains through which we are losing treated water. Public money is being used in producing water for public water systems, but up to 60% of it is being lost through leaks. Money is being spent on maintenance, putting chemicals in water and so on, but much of the resultant water is lost through leaks. If the Government wants to save money in the long term, its priority when investing in water infrastructure must be fixing leaks.

At a press conference, the Minister stated that installing water meters would cost approximately €600 million. Fingal County Council recently quoted this figure at a council meeting, so the Minister must have stated it; otherwise, Fingal County Council has it wrong. When the Labour Party was in government in the 1990s, the figure for the installation of water meters was £1 billion, so the cost will definitely be at least €600 million. Why would the Minister divert State money into installing water meters that will do nothing about our creaking water infrastructure or stop water from leaking instead of investing in fixing those leaks and, therefore, reducing the amount of water lost and reducing the amount of money that must be spent on producing water for public supply?

As to the idea that water meters are required to stop consumption, water is not wasted by public consumption. There is no proof of it and the Minister has no figures in this regard. Rather, we have figures on water being lost through leaks in the distribution system. If the Minister wants to do something about water conservation, investment in water infrastructure must be the priority. There must be an ideological reason for taking some of that money and investing it in metering, which will do nothing to address the real priority, namely, preventing waste in the publicly treated water supply.

I welcome the Minister, the Minister of State and their officials. I congratulate Deputy Cuffe on his appointment as Minister of State and look forward to working with him.

Some issues have been raised, a number of which I will touch on. It is about time that we tackled the matter of water conservation measures, as it has been a significant issue for years. Anyone who drives through the country on a daily basis sees water bursting up through the ground. It begs the question of what type of work has been carried out on projects. A lesson is to be learned in this regard, given the fact that we have just discovered that 50% or 60% of our water is being lost through leakages. Something is seriously wrong. It is better late than never, though, and we would have a good day's work done if we tackled the issue seriously. Given that producing water to a certain standard costs so much, this level of leakage is crazy. It is a matter that must be examined.

I wish to dwell on the importance of the waste water programme, another aspect of our infrastructure. Much money is being spent on it, but we are still a long way behind. I am worried about the priorities. I do not like to be parochial, but proper sewerage systems are important to towns and villages in rural areas that are hoping to attract tourists. If we are to exit this economic situation, tourism will be one of the major pieces of the jigsaw puzzle. It is disappointing if, after bringing people to an area and going out for an evening with them in lovely villages and towns like Courtmacsherry in west County Cork, of which the Minister is aware, and so on, one sees raw sewage being pumped into the bay. It is not good enough in this day and age. At this time, we can get value for the money we will spend by bundling many of these projects together. People are looking for work and now is an opportune time to tackle the situation once and for all.

I wish to touch on the housing programme. The voluntary housing bodies have a large role to play. I say this from a couple of points of view. We have had experience of local authorities through the years. While they have done some good work, the voluntary housing bodies are currently better placed to tackle the social housing issue. The cost of local authorities maintaining housing has proven significant whereas the voluntary bodies have shown that they can do it more cheaply. I hope that finance will be made available to them. The ordinary punter has no demand for housing in many unfinished and finished estates, so the time is opportune to tackle our social housing problem. Anything done along this line would be welcome.

Even as a councillor, I supported the adaptation grants for older people. Older people wish to remain in their houses as long as they possibly can. These grants have made that possible. How closely does this Department work with the Department of Social and Family Affairs and the HSE with regard to carers for these people? They can do a great deal on their own but they need much care. Much more can be done for older people living in their homes through this Department, the Department of Social and Family Affairs and the HSE working together.

The Minister stated that local authorities spent €11 billion last year. That is a massive amount of money by any standard and I welcome any review on how the money is spent. The money is given out before any work is done and in my experience one is looking for trouble if one pays someone for a job before it is done. I would like to see that review carried out immediately.

With regard to waste policy, my experience of levies is that they have a devastating effect on the countryside because people divert waste onto the sides of the roads as soon as they hear of levies. Driving through the country roads, we see where waste is going. Levies raise money but cause major problems because people are concerned about money. That is the effect I see.

The Minister referred to a review group monitoring the McCarthy report and undertaking an independent examination of local authority efficiency. He mentioned the group was involved in wide-ranging consultation and had met stakeholders including the Local Authorities Members Association and the County and City Managers Association. It is fine meeting these officials but the Minister needs to meet the clients of local authorities, those who are trying to get through to local authorities on planning or housing. He should hear complaints at that level and from former councillors about the service of the local authority and how to get that service delivered to the people who matter, the public.

The local authorities' policy of laying off temporary staff and junior staff in order to meet targets set with regard to cuts has had a serious impact on low paid families who are now in receipt of social welfare. Perhaps there is a better way of doing this. I can give the example of a family waiting five years for an isolated cottage. Perhaps it is longer than five years but the council has not yet given a definitive decision on whether the family will get an isolated cottage or not. Regarding emergency funding for disabled persons grants, local authorities should hold in reserve an amount of money for emergency work. I came across a family last year where elderly parents were leaving hospital and needed repairs done to the house. The local authority could not do this because it did not have funding. Provision should be made to retain funding for emergencies.

I understand the Department provides substantial moneys for local community grants. There must be a better way of highlighting these grants to the public. Publishing an advertisement one week in a local newspaper is insufficient. Many people do not see this and we must have a better way of publicising it.

Deputy McCormack referred to the €200 fee for second houses. This must be re-examined because I have had a phenomenal amount of complaints and queries about this over the past week. I have written to the Department about it. The Minister will claim the payment was levied late last year and is being levied at the correct time this year but it is seen as double taxation. I appeal to the Minister to examine this matter.

We discussed the composition of An Bórd Pleanála last year. Perhaps this could be discussed again and whether there are changes in the board system since then. The Irish Rural Dwellers Association met us last year and had a number of queries on the matter. We are concerned about the composition of the board.

Regarding the built environment, heritage officers in Kildare in particular are doing tremendous work on graveyards. Many see this as unimportant but listing headstones, the quality of headstones and the old headstones on graveyards is an important remit of local authorities and I wish to see more emphasis on it.

Regarding rural water, the Ballina group water scheme has been on the books for many years. Some €400 per house has been collected from more than 700 houses and it has been held up because the water supply is not available. We await the development of two well-fields, one in Robertstown and one in Dunfirth. I appeal to the Minister to do whatever he can to progress the matter.

I have accumulated a number of questions and I am swamped by paper. I hope I can get through the questions comprehensively. I thank committee members for their contributions, which always give me food for thought. The first question from Deputy Phil Hogan was reiterated by Deputy Tuffy with regard to the announcement of the water services investment programme and yesterday's press conference. Deputy Tuffy is correct that from the news coverage one would think we were introducing water meters but this was barely mentioned and was not part of the press conference. It is not contained in the document. We were talking about a good news story in respect of further investment in water services and water services infrastructure, an increase of 3% on 2008 levels, which is to be welcomed by all. I have not yet presented the Government with a memo on water meters.

The Deputy knows what is contained in the programme for Government. He knows there is a commitment to introduce water metering. To counter Deputy Tuffy's point, it is not based on ideology but on common sense. When one introduces a payment for services, people are much more careful about how they use the resource. That is common sense. We want to deal with the commitment as outlined in the programme for Government. Members of this committee will be made well aware of what can be achieved. We are already paying considerable amounts of money at approximately €1 billion per year for our water through our tax system. It makes sense and practically every country in the European Union has a system of water metering. Our actions should be self-explanatory.

This will also ensure an income source for local authorities and Deputy Hogan has mentioned the White Paper on local government. If we are to talk about the independence of the local authorities we must look at different income streams. I will come to Deputy McCormack's question on second homes in a few moments.

On the question of the various stages for water projects, these have been simplified over the years. To use the Deputy's phrase, they were cumbersome at one stage but that can no longer be stated to be the case. There are various stages, with the appointment of consultants and the preliminary report being key. There is the question of the contract documents, the tendering and award of tender and another three phases, including the environmental impact study, planning and the way-leave. Those are the essential steps and there is nothing beyond that. There is a myth that there are approximately 73 steps but that is not so.

The question of housing was raised as well as the various grant schemes available for housing needs. The various public-private partnerships, PPPs, in Dublin, which are at various stages, were also mentioned. Deputies will be aware of the problems we encountered in a number of these projects and the PPP arrangements fell foul of the changing economic climate. Dublin City Council has since suspended its PPP programme pending recovery in the market.

However, in recognition of the importance of regeneration to the areas in question — including projects such as Charlemont, Croke Villas, Dolphin House and St. Teresa's Gardens — the council has established a multidisciplinary special housing task force to examine all options for future regeneration of these areas. The executive manager in housing and residential services of the city council chairs this task force and reports to the assistant city manager responsible for housing and residential services at regular intervals.

As part of this process my Department has liaised closely with Dublin City Council to ensure the former public private partnership regeneration projects are considered for inclusion in the national regeneration programme. My Department issued approval in 2009 to the city council with a pre-tender budget of €7.86 million to go to tender for phase one of the St. Michael's estate project. I went up there and spoke to many of the residents. A provisional allocation of €3.5 million has been set aside to support the project this year and detailed proposals for the approach to the future development of O'Devaney Gardens and Dominick Street are expected in the 2010 to 2011 period. The city council has a continuing strategy of de-tenanting many of those areas.

The Deputies raised the matter of housing needs and leasing. In the last statutory housing needs assessment in 2008, the net need was calculated at 56,000, and waiting list numbers will have gone up since. No current figures are available. The main change since 2008 has been a sharp rise in the number of households on rent supplement from approximately 60,000 to over 95,000. There are over 250,000 households in receipt of State support in the form of the rent supplement through the rental accommodation scheme, RAS, or local authority or voluntary sector social housing. There are also households in transitional accommodation due to move to independent supported living through an enhanced leasing programme.

It is fair to say that leasing is at an early stage of development. We need to get out of a certain mindset that is very prevalent in this country of house ownership. It is very different abroad and anybody with experience of living in Germany knows that people rent, which is acceptable as long as the property is in good condition and people have security of tenure. These are important issues.

The leasing programme, although in an early stage of development, is working very well. My Department has sourced over 2,000 units for leasing purposes in 2009 compared to 500 units in the first year of operation of RAS, for example. It takes time for new schemes to build up pace, particularly with leasing, where we must cope with great uncertainty in the housing market. That has paralysed decision making in some quarters.

I expect, with the active engagement of NAMA — as mentioned by Deputy Hogan — there will be a pick-up in interest and activity in the second half of this year.

I was answering a number of questions, some of which concerned leasing. Over the coming months the Department will roll out a campaign to drive forward the leasing and the RAS programmes. It will focus on stimulating interest among property owners and existing landlords. The response times of the local authorities and approved housing bodies in improving the administrative systems that underpin the programmes will be part of that. I am conscious that the performance of the housing authorities has been somewhat uneven in this regard and that further assistance and guidance are now required. We are preparing that to help them make it easier for both owners and tenants.

In response to Deputy Lynch's question, the housing and sustainable communities agency, which will combine functions from the Affordable Homes Partnership, the Centre for Housing Research, the National Building Agency and the Homeless Agency, will be set up shortly on an administrative basis. One of its key roles will be to support the leasing initiative and the RAS.

I believe that is a perfectly good way of progressing. Deputy Lynch also asked why we did not buy the units in the current market. In the short term, leasing allows many more households to receive social housing support than would be possible through the acquisition or construction under the capital investment programme. Even at today's reduced house prices it would cost billions of euro, money the Exchequer simply does not have, to increase the overall level of social housing output. That is a fact. Leasing provides an alternative approach that allows the State avail of falling market rents to achieve very good value for money while at the same time meeting the needs of ordinary people. It makes no sense to leave properties vacant if they are suitable for social housing purposes and if owners are willing to lease them to the State for a period. If we do not engage in leasing, the default position will be a further rise in the numbers of households on rent supplement. This is an important point. It is not an option to increase the overall capital budget and the only other possibility is to divert moneys away from regeneration or special needs, for example, or the adaptation grants and energy efficiency programmes I mentioned. I am not prepared to do that. The Minister of State, Deputy Finneran, has said very clearly in answer to many parliamentary questions that this is not the direction in which we intend to go. It is clear, too, that leasing provides a more flexible form of housing support than does permanent social housing. It is not designed to replace dwellings owned by local authorities or approved housing bodies but rather it provides a complementary and additional source of supply. They are important points.

I was chatting briefly to my colleague, Deputy Hogan, on our way to the vote and he raised a number of issues that I shall try to deal with now. In regard to waste Deputy Hogan mentioned the Poolbeg facility. As he may know, a senior counsel was appointed as officer, under section 224 of the Local Government Act, to look at the contractual arrangements to establish potential liabilities under various scenarios. He is expected to report to me shortly.

The Deputy asked a question he has put a number of times, namely, whether Government policy had changed. I have answered repeatedly that it has. What was announced in the programme for Government is now Government policy, as was stated a number of weeks ago. Clearly, we are moving away from the emphasis on incineration to a policy of reduce, reuse and recycle, with particular emphasis on mechanical biological treatment, MBT.

A number of Deputies raised the issue of Mr. Pat McLoughlin's efficiency group. This initiative is very welcome and was welcomed by Deputy O'Sullivan and others. It will make a considerable difference to the way we approach the question of funding local government.

I am flitting around somewhat now but wish to return to the central matter raised by Deputy McCormack, namely, non-principal residences. In the first year the date was deferred to the end of July 2009 but the annual liability date is 31 March. The Deputy contributed to the passing of the legislation which was debated in both Houses of the Oireachtas. It was not the case that this was buried in the fine print. It was clearly indicated in both Houses that this was to be the case; therefore, we are not trying to deceive the people in any way. It is simply the case that this is a source of revenue for local government.

I do not know. It was made very clear that people would have to pay by a certain time and that the due date was in 2010.

I will return to a number of other questions raised. The issue of local government reform was raised by——

Experts at the conferences I have attended told me that. My colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Curran, told me that when he was in America at the time Mount St. Helens exploded and that there were unusual weather patterns for a long time afterwards because of the clouds overhead. It is a scientific question which the Deputy can research further if he wishes.

On Deputy Hogan's comments on the White Paper, the work is proceeding very well. A committee was set up to examine the development of the regional structures to which he referred which added to the workload. He correctly said this had not previously been identified as an issue but it is now. We are examining it and I hope to report back as quickly as possible before the summer. The White Paper can then be published. It is with the Cabinet sub-committee and a number of Ministers are examining it because the particular issue is politically sensitive.

Deputy Hogan asked about the mayoralty. I spoke to him about the issue during the vote and told him we were on target. The legislation is on the A list and we will have it before the summer and the elections in 2010, about which there is no question.

Deputy Hogan also referred to the Dublin docklands, a matter on which I share his concerns. I hope the reports will be published officially. I hope we can ensure we will get answers to all of the questions raised and that the good work of the chairperson, Professor Niamh Brennan, whom I appointed and who has a major interest in corporate governance and expertise in that area, will be vindicated. It is fair to say she has sorted out the planning and corporate governance issues. The reports make reference to a number of areas which need to be addressed and they have been by the chairperson.

I did not say that; we have not yet established the situation regarding a potential liability.

Deputy McCormack said the climate change conferences were junkets. If that is the case, he might ask some of his colleagues not to travel to them.

——and South Africa.

Deputy Lynch mentioned the figure of €94 million. I was at pains to find the information from my colleagues. It seems the difference between the two figures is explained by the fact that in 2009 an initial Exchequer allocation of €65 million was supplemented by a further allocation of more than €10 million. When one takes the contribution of local authorities into account, there is a total outturn of €94 million. The total allocation this year is €100 million, €80 million of which will come from the Exchequer, with €20 million coming from the local authorities. I will be happy to go through the figures with the Deputy at Question Time, but they are the ones I have been given.

The rent to buy scheme was raised by Deputy Ciarán Lynch. We have no immediate plans to introduce a rent to buy scheme for unsold affordable homes because there is no demand for such a scheme in all areas. Dublin City Council, however, has been given approval in principle for its proposal for a pilot scheme for rent to buy for a small number of unsold affordable homes in three developments in the council area. Details of the scheme are still being worked out by the council and once it is under way, the operation of the pilot will be reviewed before considering if it could offer potential in a small number of urban local authorities in places like Fingal and Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown, where there are still significant numbers of unsold affordable houses.

It is a pilot scheme.

Deputy Christy O'Sullivan mentioned Courtmacsherry. It was included in the announcement yesterday. I am aware of the pollution, particularly the eutrophication with green algae in the bay. That is a terrible blight on the area. The Deputy is right that it affects tourism. There is no question this investment in waste water treatment plants will benefit tourism and that beautiful part of the country deserves that.

The special housing aid for the elderly scheme transferred from the HSE to my Department following a recommendation in the core functions of the health service report. The Government decided in February 2006 that a more integrated service that is better value could be obtained by transferring responsibility for the scheme from the HSE to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, which already has responsibility for housing, including the disabled person and essential repairs grant schemes. The transfer of the scheme was subsequently examined in the context of the review of the disabled person and essential repairs grant schemes undertaken by the Department.

What is the position regarding responsibility for the SHAE scheme? To facilitate transitional arrangements, it was agreed between the Department and the HSE that the SHAE scheme would be discontinued from 1 August 2008 and that the HSE would process and approve applications on hand at that date. All new applications in respect of grant assistance for home repairs and improvements from 1 August 2008 would be directed to the local authorities and dealt with under the provisions of the housing aid for older people.

If the Deputy wants the figures for that, a total of €14.7 million was recouped to the HSE in 2008 for the operation of the SHAE scheme. In July 2009, following consultation with the HSE, the Department provided a further €3.5 million in respect of the remaining claims on hand. At this time, all remaining applications under the SHAE scheme have washed through the system and there will be no allocation to the HSE under this scheme in 2010.

There was a backlog of housing aid for the elderly applications on 1 August 2008 and to meet that backlog it continued into 2009 and funding had to be provided to clear it. The net outcome is that both schemes have been combined, along with their total funding. As a result, there has been no increase in the disabled persons grant. All the Department has done is combine the funding.

I can give the Deputy the exact figures, which would help him in that regard. In 2008, the Department recouped €15.34 million under the disabled persons grant, with €12.38 million under the essential repairs grant scheme, €13.7 million under the housing aid for older people scheme, €3.2 million under the housing mobility aid grant scheme and €21 million under the housing adaptation grant scheme. This equated to a total Exchequer provision of €65.62 million.

Going on to 2009, there was €11.2 million under the disabled persons grant, €2.95 million under the essential repairs grant scheme, €19.34 million under the housing aid for older people scheme, €4.18 million under the housing mobility aid grant scheme and €32.95 under the housing adaptation grant scheme. This equated to a total Exchequer provision of €69.81 million. Those are the exact figures.

Deputy Hogan asked about the levies, the national spatial strategy and foreshore issues, while Deputy Fitzpatrick asked about the composition of An Bord Pleanála.

There is a significant shortfall with the levies. The Secretary General appeared recently before the Committee of Public Accounts and stated the gross uncollected amount is €848 million. Local authorities have identified €191 million as doubtful and difficult to recover.

The net debtors owe €309 million, with the proportion varying across local authorities. The largest numbers are in the Dublin region. The local authority with the highest amount would be Fingal, with €161.2 million, followed by smaller councils such as North Tipperary County Council which would be owed €1.59 million. There are 200 staff at local authority level occupied full-time to collect levies. Around 50 cases are at various stages of legal proceedings in Fingal. Dublin City Council has issued almost 100 warning letters, with ten court referrals. Local authorities are following up on the issue.

I will give Deputies as much detail as I can.

Deputy Hogan mentioned certain money not being used because of the Maastricht criteria. We hope this will be relaxed. If the money is available, we want to use it and will do so if a legal and sound way can be found.

On the national spatial strategy, while there is no statutory obligation to bring the matter for Oireachtas approval once the refreshing has taken place, it would make sense to involve the Joint Committee on the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. This would not include a formal vote but the joint committee's input would be welcome. The Department will do its best to provide for this.

Deputies noted that the Joint Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security has produced draft legislation on the foreshore. I am aware of this legislation, having been a member of the joint committee, and I am grateful to its Chairman, Deputy Seán Barrett, and his team for the work they have done on the issue. Nevertheless, the matter is not as simple as applying the provisions of the Planning and Development (Strategic Infrastructure) Act to the marine environment. Given the complexity of the marine environment and the need to balance the different flora, fauna and energy demands we place on it, we cannot cut and paste legislation in this area. We must reflect the different criteria and legal obligations placed on us.

I am pleased to note, however, that considerable advance work is under way on this issue. I want to proceed as quickly as possible in the matter. The marine function has transferred from the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, its natural home, and much more progress will be made on the legislation towards the end of this year.

Deputy Fitzpatrick raised the composition of An Bord Pleanála. While we want to achieve a balance between urban and rural interests, the issue is not entirely one of competition between urban and rural areas. A fair balance is achieved through the nominating bodies and panels, which include local government, trade unions, farming and economic development interests and the construction industry. Maintaining this balance will be crucial when vacancies arise on the board. I hope those who have spoken about the need for balance will be satisfied with the outcome. I thank Deputies for their questions.

I thank the Minister of State. Deputy Fitzpatrick referred to the work done by heritage officers, especially on graveyards. In my experience, heritage officers have done tremendous work in the counties where they are employed. On the question of graveyards, one of the sources of inspiration in taking my decision to invest in the purchase of a church in Kilkenny, a decision Deputy Hogan strongly welcomed, was seeing the old gravestones in the churchyard which date back to the confederation times in Kilkenny. This site will become an additional tourist attraction for the city. Those are the reasons the Department made the investment in the church.

I will give a sneak preview of a priority question the Deputy asked on spot checks of capital projects funded by my Department. I commissioned Ernst & Young to carry out spot checks on capital projects on foot of a general obligation in the area of capital funding. The report examined a sample of 143 capital projects valued at €330 million across nine programmes, primarily relating to the years 2006 and 2007. In general, the report found good compliance in procurement. It also found that local authorities complied with the relevant guidelines and that in a large number of cases where significant capital expenditure was involved, processes adopted by local authorities mirrored the appraisal guidelines. I will address the matter in more detail when I respond to the Deputy's question on Thursday.

As there are no further questions, we will conclude our consideration of the 2009 Output Statement and Revised Estimates, Vote 25 — Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government — for the year 31 December 2010. I thank the Minister, Deputy Gormley, Minister of State, Deputy Ciarán Cuffe, and their officials, as well as members for their attendance today.