JOINT COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT debate -
Wednesday, 7 Apr 2010

I draw the attention of the witnesses to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege but this does not apply to witnesses appearing before it. Members are reminded of the parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against any person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I welcome Mr. Fred Barry, chief executive officer of the National Roads Authority and Mr. Hugh Creegan, head of its public private partnership section. I propose that we have a short presentation followed by questions.

I understand the committee has called this meeting because of damage caused to many houses in recent years by heaving fill and concerns about the possibility of pyrite-induced damage to the new M3 which is due to open in a few months' time. Pyrite is a mineral consisting of iron and sulphur. It is one of the most common sulphide materials and is found in a wide range of rocks and soils, coal beds, quartz bands and elsewhere. It has been mined since ancient times and is still in use for some commercial applications, for example, the production of sulphuric acid and sulphur dioxide.

The sulphur in pyrite can, in certain circumstances, oxidate, to form sulphates. These acids may combine with other materials, particularly carbonates, to form lower density materials. These lower density materials occupy more space and swelling occurs. The potential of the pyrite to produce heave-inducing sulphates is dependent on its concentration, the presence of water and oxygen, the crystallisation structure of the pyrite, the composition of the pyrite-bearing rock, the availability of other materials, especially carbonates, and so on.

Pyrite-induced heaving is a well-recognised concern for buildings where the swelling of fill under the structure may damage foundation and floor slabs and, in turn, cause other structural damage. It is a particularly prevalent risk in some parts of the world, such as Quebec in Canada as well as part of the Appalachians in the United States, and it can cause serious problems here in Ireland too, as has been seen. Aggregates can release sulphates such as sulphuric acid if the stone is coated with pyrite-bearing soil or sediment. This would typically arise when aggregate is excavated from old marine deposits or the aggregates may contain reactive pyritic mineralisation. Once the stone and sediment are exposed to air, the pyrite can oxidise and produce acid.

There have been occasional cases of swelling affecting road pavement but most of the swelling problems relate to buildings. We have had a few minor heave problems on our national roads which may have been pyrite-induced, but these were of small significance and were readily dealt with. Those involved in road construction are primarily concerned about the sulphate content of structural backfills, but not because of heave. Sulphate can, either directly or through intermediary products, damage buried concrete and steel. Research has been done in other countries that have had pyrite-related problems with road construction in recent years, such as the UK and the USA, and numerous research papers have recommended various tests. Our road construction contracts typically contain due diligence and care provisions which preclude the use of inappropriate materials. Additionally, as a precaution we specify that certain minimum tests should be carried out for aggregate used as fill near concrete.

The NRA's test requirements introduced in 2000 were based on British standards. Those requirements were updated in 2004 to comply with new European standards. We review our standards from time to time and currently, as part of the roads standards committee, we are reviewing new tests introduced by the UK Highways Agency that were last updated in November 2009. In view of the widespread use of NRA specification for roadworks, we will be consulting the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and other stakeholders before introducing any changed requirements.

Turning to the M3, the committee is probably aware that it is being built by a public private partnership concession which is fully responsible for the construction and maintenance of the motorway for the next 45 years. At the end of that time, the motorway has to be in good condition and repair before it is handed over to the State. Consequently, if there are any pyrite related problems with the motorway, and we are not aware of any, the responsibility for dealing with them rests squarely with the PPP company. There are approximately 4.2 million cu. m. of fill on the M3 scheme and materials are drawn from dozens of sources around the country. The PPP concessionaire was aware of concerns about pyrite and consequently declined to use materials from mining, which would be high risk. Additionally, when the products from a couple of other quarries were being mentioned in connection with the housing heaving problems, it checked on the use of materials from those sources. This can be done because test records identify where materials are used as well as their source. None of the stone from either sources was used as structural fill. As mentioned previously, if in fact there is any shortcoming in its quality assurance system and if any problems result, all remedial works will be up to the concessionaire.

To summarise, sulphate related problems with road constriction in Ireland have been quite limited. There is no evidence of the unacceptable use of pyrite-bearing rock on the M3, but if any problems emerge, the full cost of any repairs will lie with the PPP concessionaire.

I thank members of the delegation from the National Roads Authority for appearing before the joint committee. I appreciate their prompt reply and willingness to appear before us.

Perhaps the Chair will allow me one minute to explain my position. I had no knowledge about the possibility of the presence of pyrite in the rock used in the construction of the M3 motorway until 18 months ago. The people of County Meath are all very proud of the M3 and the sooner the motorway opens the better. It is great to travel on the roads to Cork, Galway and Belfast and it is a pleasure to live in a country with such good quality roads.

Early last year I was contacted by a number of residents in Kentstown who showed me two houses that had literally exploded. That was the first time I became aware of the word pyrite. These were €500,000 houses and the families involved were desperate and had nowhere to turn. We started a campaign that built up quietly. We met HomeBond and to cut a long story short, we did a deal and the houses are being fixed at present. Following that deal, the question of pyrite in construction material was put up on the website and together with my colleague and a few others, we have become the people who are fighting the case for thousands of homeowners in south County Meath, north County Dublin and Kildare. I spend much of my time visiting houses where the owners are desperate. What frightens me is that there is nobody now in a position to take responsibility for this. HomeBond, as was admitted to the Irish Independent, has 20,000 cases of houses with possible heaving in the floors and is not in a position financially to deal properly with the houses. The builders themselves——

I had asked for one minute. We now have builders who, with the best intentions, are not in a position to help these householders. The insurance policies of these builders do not cover the home owners either because pyrite was not mentioned. Several people have told me that filling material from quarries used in the construction of these houses is being used in the building of the M3.

That is where I am coming from. While I would not like to think it is true, it would be foolish of me to ignore the consequences of the possibility of pyrite in the rock used in the construction of the motorway. I note the answer in the presentation that it will not be a problem for the NRA for 45 years. I do not accept that answer. It is taxpayers' money that is paying for the construction of the motorway and I do not want to face the possibility of closing part of the road in three or four years' time, as happened in England. I would like answers to the following questions. When was the NRA made aware of the possible link between the material used in the houses with problems and in the construction of the M3? Did the NRA take any steps to deal with that possibility? Mr. Barry stated that the criteria was changed from 2002 to 2004 and that since 2009 it is being updated. What stage is that at? Can the NRA clearly show from where all the material used in the construction of the M3 came and was it tested for excess pyrite? The road is now almost completed. Is Mr. Barry happy for the road and its embankments to be tested for the presence of excess pyrite from the toll bridge to the new turn-off at Clonee?

I warmly welcome the chief executive, Mr. Fred Barry and his colleagues. Let me mention briefly that I first became aware of pyrite in the summer of 2007 in houses in the Drynam Hall estate, Kilsealy. It then appeared in houses in Clongriffin and in Blanchardstown. I was the first person to use the figure of 20,000 houses in Fingal and north Leinster generally. The infill material where the pyrite content was too high came from four quarries and one of those quarries was in Ballycoolin, a Lagan quarry. I would like to know if any of the infill from Lagan or the other suspected quarries was used for houses in places like Kentstown in County Meath, or for any sort of cover in the M3 or any other roads? The interesting point is that the problem arising from too high a concentration of pyrite was well known. This problem occurred 30 years ago in Quebec, Canada, and the government of Quebec fell because of this crisis caused by the incredible scandal. It is one of the greatest scandals of Irish history that 20,000 plus people bought houses costing €60 billion in total, that were fundamentally defective. Anyone who has ever worked on building sites when a student or as a young man would be very unhappy fixing up homes where there were defective floors. Lagan Construction was involved in the quarrying of the materials that were used in some of the sites in north County Dublin and it was also involved in the Dublin Port Tunnel and there was great anxiety that infill used in the port tunnel could have too high a pyrite content. I have asked everybody I could find at the time and in particular the assistant city manager, Mr. Philip Maguire, and others to confirm that there had been a procedure for testing construction material and he seemed to indicate that rigorous testing of infill was carried out on the port tunnel and it could not be possible that defective infill was in the ground or in the walls with the obvious unimaginable consequences. I ask Mr. Barry to confirm that is the case and that it is the case for the M3, in particular.

I have asked that we would have a commission of investigation on the housing front and I have raised it three or four times in debates in this House. Like Deputy McEntee I too have dealt with very upset householders in Dublin north east who are in negative equity and who have had this problem. They are deeply upset and nobody seems to give a damn. Even the media has given very little coverage to this issue. People are worried given that such little attention has been given to this issue.

We now have many problems in the financial arena, but this is an additional, incredible situation on the west and north side of Dublin and in north Leinster, which might also exist in roads such as the M3.

I am chiefly concerned about the M3. We do not want to see a repeat of what happened in housing happening on the M3. I take some reassurance from the presentation today. I understand Mr. Barry to have stated clearly that if there are pyrite related problems with the motorway, he is not aware of them. Second, that the materials used were drawn from dozens of sources, but that the concessionaire was aware of concerns about pyrite and consequently declined to use material from mining that would have associated high risk and products from a number of other quarries that were mentioned and that none of the stone from either source was used as structural infill. It seems the NRA has done the checks. That is the level of clarity we need. We do not want people to be worried about the M3 and the segment of road mentioned by Deputy McEntee from Clonee to the top of the Trim road, to the toll bridge. If Mr. Barry is satisfied with the motorway, as he has done the checks, we should be satisfied. I wish to clarify that the checks have been carried out.

Like my fellow colleagues, I am very concerned about the possibility of infill material with a pyrite content used in the M3 and other infrastructural projects. Can the chief executive explain how the testing takes place before, during and after construction? Can he assure us that there has been a full audit and inspection of all materials and that they can be traced back to source? Home owners are taking builders and developers to court over this, but the builders and developers are countersuing the quarry where the infill material came from in the first place.

There is a note on page 2 of the document which states that the NRA's road construction contracts typically contain due diligence and care provisions, which preclude the use of inappropriate materials, and that certain minimum tests are specified. What are the checks involved? We need reassurance. I am a member of the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service and the bankers were in here consistently telling us that everything was rosy in the garden and that there were no problems with the banks. We do not want a situation where we have invited in the witnesses today and are not getting reassurances and confirmation.

Mr. Barry referred to accountability and responsibility for PPPs should they arise, although I accept he is not aware of any such problems. How does he guarantee they will have the financial capacity to pay for whatever theoretical damage that may occur?

Mr. Barry stated there have been some minor heave problems that have already been dealt with. Can he send us an account of the location, the cost and how it was dealt with? It is a matter of serious concern.

I appreciate the concerns everybody has about the problems with the housing. These problems occur where there are particular forms of pyrite in the material underneath the foundations or under slabs. It is a structural fill and under the wrong circumstances, the pyrite combines with air and water and we get sulphuric acid. That turns into gypsum and if there are carbonates present, it swells, and the foundations give way. That is a structural fill problem.

The problems that pyrite causes roads come not so much from swelling, because that is just not an issue in roads. The problems relate to acidic attacks on concrete and on buried galvanised steel. The materials that surround the concrete or the steelwork are called structural fills. There are different categories of filler materials used in different areas on the roads. All the materials used as structural fill are tested for certain things, including sulphur content which is related to the pyrite. We are not concerned whether there is pyrite in materials going into areas like embankments, which was mentioned by Deputy McEntee. In these areas, there is no concrete or embedded steel for the pyrite to attack and if the embankments heave a fraction of an inch or even a couple of inches, nobody will even see it. Consequently, the material that goes into embankments is tested for grading, sieve content and other things relevant to materials that are used in embankments. There are no tests for sulphur or other mineral content items because they are not relevant.

The aggregate used for structural infill on the M3 was tested for sulphates. The material used for embankments was not tested for sulphates, unless some material happened to be tested for sulphates but was used in the embankments anyway. Material was used from some quarries that have been mentioned in respect of the housing crisis, and it went into embankments in the construction of the M3. I can say that is not a concern to us.

Yes it does. If there is such material in the embankments, it is neither here nor there. The concern is for structural fill and that was tested.

There are records of all tests taken, which allow us to trace back to the origin of the materials and where those materials went on the site. All structural fill materials used in the construction of the project can be traced from the material in the ground back to the source. Materials in embankments cannot be traced in the same way because they get mixed up quite a lot as the embankments are upgraded and so on.

I mentioned in my statement the overriding contractual provisions of due care and so on. Some of the suppliers decide themselves to do additional tests if they feel their product is at risk for the particular application. For example, Roadstone often carries out petrographic tests, looking to the application of the material, not because it is required to do so under the standard but because it wants to meet the contractual provisions and does not want to be caught for damages at the end of the day.

There is environmental monitoring of the road construction role. Dozens of wells are tested for water content and for chemical content in the water. If there was undue amounts of pyrite or any other deleterious substance in the embankments that was leaching out into the water, it would be captured in these tests and the environmental monitoring company has the results of these tests over several years. There is no deleterious situation showing in them.

There was a testing regime for the port tunnel, where any material about which there was a concern was sifted out from the material that was used as backfill. Much of the material in the port tunnel came from the tunnel itself. The designers had a regime in place whereby some of the seams of that material which could contain problem substances were effectively screened out and sifted out.

I would like to go back to Mr. Barry. The NRA built a series of spaghetti junctions at Blanchardstown, Clonshaugh and so on by the M50 and further out on the M1. It is brilliant engineering, but many embankments have been thrown up and the bridges are delicately sitting there.

Are the structures of similar sections of the M1 and the M3 different? I often use the M1, and the road is very quiet for five or six kilometres at the Swords Estuary. It seems we are using a different structure because it makes driving so pleasant. Are similar stretches of the M3 and the M1 built to the exact same high standard?

They are fundamentally built to the same standard but there are different design interpretations that provide solutions that meet design criteria. There are some differences. As a result of An Bord Pleanála's direction, we used low noise finishing on the M50 so it might sound a little bit quieter when driving on it. There are also different types of barriers in the central medians that meet the performance standards, so there might be different ways of doing them.

With regard to bridges, while the performance specifications would be same for everybody, individual engineers would take a different view or, depending on the price of materials, someone might opt for a steel or concrete solution, using pre-stressed or post-tensioned concrete. One will see differences in their construction, but if one gets down to the fundamentals of sub-base and base——

Yes. There are different tests for the aggregate used in concrete. Of course, there would be structural infill around the embankments.

I will respond to some of the points made earlier. The Deputy referred to problems with motorways in the United Kingdom. The problem was not one of importing aggregate from a quarry to a road. Instead, a road was built and an area was cut open where the soil was heavily infected by pyrite. This is what led to the trouble in the United Kingdom. There was a similar problem in Pennsylvania in the United States a while ago, but this is not the same issue. However, it would be if we built a road through the quarry, but that is not the same as importing aggregate from the quarry to the road.

We have not discovered any. There was one occasion some years ago when there was a heave on a road where it met a bridge. It was a matter of millimetres. We never did figure out what had caused the problem but the unevenness was dealt with the next time the road was surfaced. It was not a situation where we undertook a big investigation or there was a big cost.

At first, it was thought that the bridge had settled because the level of the road went a little higher. It was then decided that perhaps the level of the road had risen a little. That was it. We have not identified pyrite problems anywhere on national roads. We know about the one just mentioned and I stated in my memo that there might be a few. I want to capture the case, as there may be another one that we do not know about.

——even though there is kerbing and asphalt? To return to my question on the main road from the toll bridge to Clonee, was any of the material used on the embankments used on the main part of the road? Where there was soil stabilisation and cement and lime were mixed with the clay, was the filling used on the embankments also used on top between the toll bridge and Clonee? Is Mr. Barry satisfied that this material is 100% free of excess pyrite?

I am very concerned, but I do not want to be a dog in the manger on the opening of the road. I would like to think this matter would be dealt with immediately and that the stretch of road between the toll bridge and Clonee would be tested by an independent, outside assessment agency.

I ask the NRA to check the insurance policy of the company which is building the road to ascertain whether it would cover an event where pyrite was found. This is similar to the case of persons with houses who have been left high and dry. As my colleague said, it is the worst issue with which we are dealing. In ten year's time I do not want to be a Deputy or a former Deputy who knew about what was happening. We have left the banking crisis for our children to deal with. When the NRA takes control of the M3, I do not want it to increase the tolls to pay for a problem for which the company does not have insurance. Has it checked the position in this regard? Although he says he is not sure, can Mr. Barry give a guarantee that the stretch of road from Clonee to the toll bridge is free of contaminated material?

It is not going to happen within six months but I have seen it occur in Kentstown in a period of three years. In tests carried out at the contaminated quarries they are recorded as being five or six times above the level for pyrite allowed in the building industry. They are very aggressive. The position is different in Canada because the climate is colder, whereas the climate in Ireland is wetter. The soil has been treated with cement, lime and, possibly, contaminated material which will explode in the space of two or three years.

On the port tunnel project which is typical of all other projects, Dublin City Council would have engaged supervisory staff, typically from one of the big engineering firms which had full-time staff engaged in the project. Brown & Root was used for the tunnel project and there would have been 40 to 50 such staff.

It is messy, but it is not that big a deal from a financial point of view. At least one of the companies with which we are dealing on the M3 is a multi-billion euro company. I will check and happily come back to the committee to confirm whatever I have checked as to financial capability and provide comfort that it will be in place to fix a problem tomorrow, next year or at some future date. It may be in the form of insurance, but I will check the matter out and come back to the committee.

That brings us back to the question I asked. There are two other points to be made. Mr. Barry has said there were a few minor heave problems on national roads. Will he give us the details, including the locations, the costs involved, the years of construction and when the problems were noticed?

While I do not doubt the integrity of Mr. Barry, I have done some work on what happened on the Drogheda bypass, which was probably commenced before his time. Instead of building a road over the motorway which was being constructed by the contractors and having a slope from east to west, they very kindly built it the opposite way and had to knock it down at a cost to themselves of more than €100,000 at the time. I do not understand how someone did not see that this was being done the wrong way around, when the structure was so visually massive. It creates a doubt in my mind. When that can happen, anything can.

The NRA discovered a massive illegal dump when it was building the Drogheda bypass and I tried to get to the bottom of the matter, but I was sent from Billy to Jack in terms of freedom of information requests. Although this has nothing to do with Mr. Barry, can we receive a report on this dump, where it was found, what happened and whether the EPA reported on the matter? I will then take it up with Mr. Barry.

As laypeople, we had never heard about pyrite or fool's gold until about seven or eight years ago. As engineers, were members of the delegation aware of it? Did changing building practices and methods magnify the problem? When building a house, one builds walls in such a way that the infill is captured within the foundation. Is it different when one is building a road? Is there more flexibility or room for expansion, even if there is pyrite in the infill below the surface? I am sorry but I am not very knowledgeable on how one builds a road. Does one build side walls? I imagine there is more room for flexibility, whereas the problem with houses is that the infill is captured within the foundation or that the foundation is made from cement. If there is a heave or expansion, it can only explode. If there is expansion, things can swell in the way an old door swells in wintertime, but it does not do any harm. Is it fair to compare the foundation of a road with that of a house?

There has been an awareness of pyrite and what can go wrong with it for many decades, since before my time studying. There has not been a great awareness of it in Ireland because we have not had problems with it. It is everywhere in trace quantities. In concentrated form, when it can do damage, it is worse in some parts of the world than others. It is found in Quebec, the north east of the United States and Queensland, Australia.

That is correct because the material near the surface will have weathered to an extent. The further down one goes, the purer the substance becomes. On roads it presents less of a problem for a number of reasons. The flexibility of the pavement means it can move up or down a little. It expands and contracts with temperature changes without actually cracking in the way a building foundation might. In road construction we are concerned about acid attack and concrete corrosion rather than heaving. There are a few reports worldwide of heaving being of signifcance but not much of a problem.

I refer to motorway stops and the instruction to the NRA to only spend its own money and moneys provided by local authorities. I acknowledge the intention and commitment of the NRA to provide stops where people can get out safely, have a rest, a cup of coffee, change a baby and do whatever needs to be done. However, its policy has been totally frustrated. In response to parliamentary questions the Minister said he had no function in this matter but he has dictated to the NRA and indicated that it shoud not spend any money on motorway rest areas, which are critical in ensuring road safety. Can the NRA identify preferred locations for motorway stops and provide copies of correspondence it has had with the Department of Transport on the matter? It is critical in ensuring road safety that we have motorway rest areas. I acknowledge the commitment of the NRA to provide them. It has asked local authorities to identify suitable lands adjacent to transport corridors for such rest areas to potential investors. What stage of this process has been reached? The overriding concern is road safety, in which regard I acknowledge the intention of the NRA.

We have been contacted by Mayo county councillors. What will happen on the N26, following the decision of An Board Pleanála on the development of the road to Ballina? Local roads in Fingal and Deputy McEntee's constituency are in an appalling state, to an extent that is mindblowing. If inspectors travelled along them, perhaps we would never see them again, as there are incredible potholes. Some of the regional roads are in a bad state also. The regulatory authority of standards for the local authorities is the NRA. Is it upsetting that the local road network is in rack and ruin? The recent bad weather was the final nail in the coffin; we need major programmes. Is the NRA concerned that the sum of €400 million passed on to local authorities by the Minister for Transport will not be enough to rebuild roads?

My office wrote to the NRA ten days ago about the appalling litter problem on the Ashbourne bypass. We received an immediate response. It was clear responsibility would be transferred to Meath County Council within 12 months, but the staff of the NRA cleared litter on the Dublin side and moved on. Is there any way the NRA could catch the culprits? It is the most ugly site as one enters County Meath. I am aware that we have our problems in the county with dumping on bogs. The NRA has started a clean-up and it makes a difference. People contact us to state that they appreciate the quick response. Cameras have been put in place and while I appreciate they are expensive, if two or three people caught dumping rubbish on the Ashbourne bypass were made an example of, it would act as a deterrent throughout the country. In spring our main roads and their shrubberies are a lovely sight, but it is just unreal if one goes down the Ashbourne bypass at the moment. I would appreciate a quick response.

I wish to raise two issues, one of which is the matter raised by Deputy Broughan on the discussion we had with the NRA about the flooding and repairs. Where there has been proper resurfacing with tarmacadam, it is an excellent job. There are examples along the road from Galway to Clifden. We discussed tarring and chipping, which is the greatest waste of money. Will Mr. Barry comment on the NRA's experience of work done since the bad weather? Has there been cost effectiveness? We know repair work with tarmacadam is very expensive, but in the long term it appears to be money well spent.

Given that work on the motorways is coming to an end, will Mr. Barry give us an idea of what will happen next? The condition of national secondary roads is a major issue and there is also an amount of work to be done on national primary roads. It is now inevitable that there will be job losses in multinational companies if work on the N5 to County Mayo is not completed. Will Mr. Barry provide an update?

We have received a direction not to expend further Exchequer funding on service areas for now. I will provide the committee with a copy of the instruction. It is not a prohibition forever but during the current economic circumstances. I expect that when the economic situation improves, the interdiction will be lifted, but that remains to be seen.

Following that direction and the putting on hold of plans we had for further work on service areas, we wrote to county managers to let them know what was happening. We considered that some people who were interested in developing not necessarily full service areas but facilities close to motorways might be deterred because of competition in on-line service areas and who might now be willing to go ahead. Responses would not come to us. In the normal course of events people submit planning applications to local authorities.

Yes, it was on the agenda. For the want of transparency and accountability, I support the NRA's view that such areas are essential. In fairness, it is not good enough and I am not being critical of Mr. Barry personally. The end of the economic recession is one issue but there is a safety issue, which is Mr. Barry's overriding concern also.

No. I appreciate that Mr. Barry may not want to tell us what was said in the conversation, but the clear facts are that the National Roads Authority wants and needs these areas now and that the Minister is preventing it from happening. That is the point I am making to support the NRA's case in public. I appreciate that it must insist on this happening and that it is not good enough that it is not happening. The Minister is preventing it from happening. I am not trying to put Mr. Barry in a position where he will have to do anything other than maintain transparency and accountability on the concerns of the NRA. That is what I am asking him about.

The Minister has dictated that it cannot be done, but my point is that he refuses to accept in the Dáil accountability or responsibility for this matter. He states it has nothing to do with him. It has everything to do with him because the NRA has been told by him that it cannot do it. However, he will not answer questions in the Dáil. This is where the committee system should work. That is why I want to see whatever files there are on this matter being brought here. If Mr. Barry will not bring them, I will do so, if I have to.

——An Bord Pleanála rejected the planning application. From my reading of the decision, it was on the basis that it did not believe it was appropriate to build a new or better road in the particularly scenic and sensitive area along the path of the N26. There is not much more which can be done. We are not promoting a judicial review of the An Bord Pleanála decision, which would be the recourse we or those involved in County Mayo would have. They could do so on their own but we do not support it. We do not like the decision but it is for An Bord Pleanála to make its decisions and we must live with them.

Litter presents a huge problem throughout the country, including the Ashbourne bypass. The sides of national and non-national roads are a disgrace. We have very limited funds in our maintenance budget, which is where litter removal is funded from. More than ever this year, the maintenance budget has been used to pay for snow and ice removal and the repair of damage done by snow and ice. Moneys available to local authorities to clean up roads are extremely limited this year and there is no magic wand available. We do not have the money to give to local authorities. We are not stating they have enough to do the job. We will work with them to do the best that can be done with the money available but short of receiving extra funding — I have no reason to expect there will be extra funding available — we can do what we can; we simply have to exhort people to stop throwing their litter around the place.

Litter wardens perform a similar task. Someone dumped rubbish at the end of the lane on which I live and my wife managed to find the name and address of the culprit, who was brought to court. The county council has agreed to clean up the bog outside Wilkenstown and install cameras there. I also believe cameras are in place somewhere in County Westmeath. Perhaps, if the NRA had €8,000 or €10,000, it would consider a similar initiative around Ashbourne.

We will ask to have the matter addressed by local authorities but I would also support Deputy McEntee's suggestion that the NRA might install some form of surveillance where obvious litter blackspots are identified. If the Garda applied the full rigour of the law to a few high profile cases so that people were brought to justice and fined heavily, there might be a deterrent effect.

The Chairman asked what is next . A number of projects have been tendered as public private partnerships and funding is available to support them. Work on the N11, Arklow-Rathnew, Newlands Cross, the Enniscorthy bypass, the New Ross bypass and the southern section of the M20 Cork-Limerick route will proceed as individual PPP projects. They will be signed up at the end of this year or at the end of 2011 and will be completed over the coming three or four years.

The current multi-annual capital plan allows for discretionary money next year which we hope to use to build some of the smaller bypasses that have been planned for some time, including Belturbet, Longford along the N5, Tralee and a couple of junctions on the southern ring-road in Cork. We will pursue the tendering process for these projects this year but will have to await next year's budget before awarding contracts.

It is one of the PPP projects and the tender for it is at an advanced stage. Beyond these projects, the multi-annual funding programme as it currently stands provides very limited discretionary money and once we pay for safety projects, pavement rehabilitation and general operations our level of funding allows little else to be done for the indefinite future. However, we are preparing a report for the Minister for Transport which we hope to finalise by the end of the summer on projects that we think need to be pursued and when they can be completed, depending on funding. These include our ongoing assessment of the condition of all national secondary roads, the balance of the national primary roads and the pressures that traffic growth in a recovering economy will put on the system.

It is one of the national primary roads that have not been upgraded to a great extent. Parts of the N5 have been worked on, such as the Castletown bypass, but it was not included as a corridor in the current wave of projects. If the money is available, work will commence on the Ballaghaderreen bypass but it is not in our spending plan at present.

As a Deputy from the west of Ireland, I have received representations from a number of chief executives of multinational companies who argue that they cannot continue to justify their presence in County Mayo to their parent offices in the United States unless that road is upgraded as a matter of urgency. That must be a significant reason for work to commence. It is one of the major corridors that have not been upgraded and it does not appear to be on the priority list.

It is not a case of it not being on the priority list but, like the road to Sligo and other corridors, our priority was to complete the interurban routes. We have completed this work and part two of Transport 21 comprised the balance of the national primary roads and the national secondary roads. Obviously, however, the funding that was to be provided under Transport 21 is no longer available.

We will take the matter up with the Minister. I mean no disrespect to Tralee when I say that I consider the N5 to be a higher priority than the Tralee bypass. From an economic point of view, 5,000 jobs are at stake in several multinational companies operating in County Mayo.

I ask Mr. Barry to comment on the questions Deputy Broughan and I raised regarding tarmacadam and road repairs.

As with all of these matters, there is a limited pot of money which will be stretched as far as possible by the NRA and the local authorities. Anybody can see from the roads around the country that a considerable level of repair work remains to be done. I cannot comment on non-national roads. The only role we were given in respect of local and regional roads is to administer grants. We have no role in deciding how much they should be or where they should go. These decisions are entirely within the Minister's remit.

No. It is down to getting through the planning process in the first instance. The application is with An Bord Pleanála. We would expect an oral hearing this year. I presume it will not be before the summer because we have not heard much yet. It will take place when An Bord Pleanála sets a time for it. Following a hearing, they usually take six months or more to decide on an application. If they give approval it then comes down to funding. I would not expect a decision on the Slane bypass from An Bord Pleanála this year. Early next year is the soonest we will get it.

I thank Mr. Barry and Mr. Creegan for their responses, especially to the questions of which they did not have notice. We appreciate that.

As the witnesses from Iarnród Éireann have not arrived, the meeting will suspend for ten or 15 minutes.