Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 29 Feb 2024

I thank the Office of the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this Topical Issue and the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, for being here and for actually waiting until he himself is present. I know the Minister of State visited east Cork and I thank him for coming down. He saw at least some of the damage done to some of the roads in the area, which was absolutely horrific.

I understand Cork County Council submitted an estimate of the damage which was something in the region of between €50 million and €60 million. In his response, the Minister of State might like to confirm what request the council has actually sent in to the Department of Transport over and above what the council normally gets for its annual road allocation. I have seen some of these roads and their state is absolutely diabolical. Some of the worst roads need attention. The council is doing its best but I understand it looked for between €50 million and €60 million and received €13 million. The request really is if that the Minister of State could double that this year, the council might at least be able to make some impression on the work that needs to be done on the roads. One can imagine driving along a road in your car and the road is just not there any more. It is destroyed.

Storm Babet, some people said, was a once in 1,000 years event. Recently, more people have said it was a once in 100 years event. There is a fear that it might happen again. There is also a fear that if these roads are not repaired, the normal wear and tear that occurs anyway will make them even worse than they are. I am getting calls every day, and I know my colleague, Deputy James O'Connor, is also concerned about this. We both are. I am getting calls every day from people who want to meet me and who want to know what we are doing about this and how these roads can be repaired. The Taoiseach told me last week that in Donegal, there was a special allocation made over and above when the estimate that went in. I want to know if the Department of Transport had made an application to the Department of Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform looking for a special allocation over and above and if so, what reaction did it get? That is why it is so important to have the Minister of State from the Department here this evening, and I am sure the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, will have the answers to these questions. Other Ministers who come in may not have them but I am confident the Minister of State here present will have them.

What I am looking for is, first, how much did the council look for from the Department? How much did the Department give initially over and above the usual allocation? Has the Department gone to the Department of Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform looking for further funding, as the Taoiseach last week suggested would happen? If not, when will the Department do this? Will it go to the Department of Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform requesting extra money? I would be very happy to support the Minister for Transport and the Minister of State in the Department in that quest for extra funding for east Cork, and I am sure my colleagues will as well.

As I said, my concern is that these roads are very bad at the moment and that if they are not repaired and brought up to a proper standard, they will only deteriorate in the weeks, months and maybe a year ahead, before we see it happening again next year. The council officials are very concerned about it. They want to get on with it but they cannot. We are all getting it in the neck from constituents, as the Minister of State can understand.

The other thing I would like to see happening is that when these roads are restored and brought up to a standard, that they would be brought up to a proper standard, that the drainage would be looked after, and that if we have another event like what we just had, there would be some chance of the water flowing away at the sides of the road, and not tearing the roads up as has happened. I hope that this event will not occur for a long time again. I do not want to see it in my lifetime but looking at reports today, eminent scientists are saying that we can expect this quite often.

I thank Deputy Stanton for raising this important issue. I welcome the opportunity to discuss this topic with members of the House. I understand that the Deputy’s question is in relation to the provision funding to Cork County Council for emergency repairs on roads and bridges following Storm Babet in October with an emphasis on the east Cork region. As the Deputy said, I was in Cork myself in the days following this, and I am aware of the destruction that was caused in so many areas of the county. We have been in regular contact with the Deputy and representatives - and they have with us - since then, and I know it is an issue that continues to impact on the community there.

As the Deputy is aware, Ireland experienced several severe weather events this winter. Heavy rainfall associated with these events led to widespread flooding in certain areas, particularly in the south of the country. That has caused significant damage to parts of the national, regional and local road networks. It is important to set out the process when there are events such as this.

First, it takes time to assess the full impact of a storm event on the road network. Initial clean-up activities are prioritised and following that there are damage assessments. An assessment of the full extent of the damage following Storm Babet in Cork is still being finalised with surveys on impacted bridge infrastructure ongoing. This year, in addition to an allocation at the end of 2024, my Department committed to allocating funds for the repair and rehabilitation of the road network as part of the 2024 regional and local grant allocations, which were released on Thursday, 15 February. Some €22.5 million has been made available to assist in the repair of the significant damage to the regional and local road network, with Cork County Council allocated €13 million to conduct repair works following the impacts of severe weather events.

The Department, Transport Infrastructure Ireland and Cork County Council are also working closely together to assess the damage, and therefore to plan appropriate remedial action and finally determine the estimated costs of repair. This process is ongoing. I fully appreciate that the restoration of the road network is essential from a safety perspective as well as maintaining key social, community and economic connections. We are all aware of the severity of this storm. We are also conscious that significant action is required to restore our critical road infrastructure to active use. As I said, €13 million was allocated for these works in the county, and I want to assure the Deputy that we are committed to continuing to work with and assist Cork County Council in managing essential repair works, especially the opening of key roads and bridges, as well as investing in future-proofing our road networks to help reduce the probability of such damage reoccurring.

I met with the director of roads and transportation in Cork County Council last week, when I was down there. I am aware of the current concerns that have been expressed. If the €13 million that has been provided in 2024 is not sufficient, this allocation will, of course, have to be revisited, and the Department will be open to engaging on that. Due to the scale of the damage and the ongoing assessment that is occurring, it is also likely that there will have to be further significant allocations for 2025. It is about managing the budgetary process in the context of 2024, and then also profiling what will be required for 2025. As I said, on the work with Transport Infrastructure Ireland and Cork County Council, there is still ongoing assessment occurring about the specific damage, what that will cost and when it can be remedied. We are actively engaged in that.

As the Deputy said, from what the Taoiseach has said to the Tánaiste and others across Government, when there is a severe weather event it is incumbent on Government to respond. That is why there has been this initial allocation, and we will work with Cork County Council to make sure that there is proper restoration of the road infrastructure in this instance.

I thank the Minister of State for his very positive response, and also for visiting the area around that time, as other Ministers did. That was really welcome. The Minister of State touched on a number of issues in his response. One is the issue of safety. If roads are in a very bad condition, and if they are crumbling, falling away or subsiding, safety is a huge issue. I ask the Minister of State to stress that when he is talking to people in his Department about this. He also mentioned the economic and social issues. Obviously, people have to make a living. They have to go to work, school or go about their business. If the road is in rag order and their car gets damaged or destroyed beyond use, then that causes its own problems.

Bridges are another issue. There are some private bridges there that are damaged very badly but also public bridges, and they are unsafe. They need to be addressed as well.

I asked the Minister of State whether Cork County Council had, at this stage, put in an estimate. I understand that it has put in an estimate, that it has asked for a certain amount of money, and that the actual estimated works are finished. It has actually looked for something in the region of €15 million or €16 million. I understand that the estimated cost of repairs has been determined at this stage. I cannot understand, four months on, why the Department is still waiting and looking at this.

Can the Minister of State let me know later on - and he might check it out himself if he has not been told - whether the council asked for a specific amount of money from the Department to repair the roads? I understand it is between €15 million and €16 million. Also, I agree with what the Minister of State said with regard to next year, 2025. Such is the scale of the damage, that this is going to go on for a number of years. The council cannot do it all in one year. If it got all the money this year it could not spend it because it does not have the manpower or resources to do it. However, it does need more than it got, or at least double of what it got - at least that, if not more - to try to bring the place back up to standard. If we do not, it is going to get worse than what it is, and the place will come to a standstill. Lives could be at risk as well, which is of paramount importance.

I thank the Minister of State for his positive response, and I encourage him to continue, as I know he will, fighting for this extra allocation so we can get the roads back up and running to a high standard.

I absolutely agree with the Deputy. There is a key safety component to this, in addition to the wider issues around the social, economic and community infrastructure. We appreciate the Deputy raising this, and the Government is fully committed to restoring our road networks after the impact of this storm. The vast interconnected network is used by cars, buses, trucks, vans and cyclists, and is essential for connecting people, businesses and communities.

We know that the road network suffers deterioration due to severe weather and climate effects. This damage can be caused by excessive rainfall, fluctuating temperatures, erosion of embankments and retaining structures due to tidal and river flow and severe weather events. In some instances the damage can be significant, resulting in the infrastructure becoming impassable, as the Deputy has mentioned, until it can be repaired and reopened. It can impact on strategic lifeline roads serving hospitals, schools and population centres, with very few or no alternative routes.

For this reason, my Department, along with TII and other local authorities, is continuing to work towards enhancing the resilience of the road network in these rapidly-changing conditions and with severe weather events. Under the relevant roads programme, the Government is committed to the protection and renewal of the country's roads, with funding each year being provided to support important work in areas such as strengthening works, bridge rehabilitation, safety measures and draining works. That is why the national roads grants programme included approximately €56 million in Exchequer funding for Cork County Council.

The regional local grants programme has displayed our commitment to restore our critical infrastructure. Cork County Council has been allocated €13 million of the €22 million under this, specifically. There is ongoing engagement with TII on the national roads and their repair and on the local and regional network in the context of what the Deputy outlined with Cork County Council. There will be ongoing engagement with the Department of Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform on these matters.

This is a hugely important issue for my constituents in the Louth-Meath area. As the whole country knows, the D Hotel in Drogheda has 113 bedrooms. Apart from the 16-bed Scholars Townhouse Hotel, it is the only hotel in Drogheda now open to new guests. The decision to take over the D Hotel and put 500 IP applicants in there was the Minister's decision and it was made without consultation. The Minister has to be held accountable for this because people are very angry and dismayed. This is not because IP applicants are coming to Drogheda but because the Minister is taking our only hotel from us. That is the key point.

On 13 February 2023, he said: "All statutory requirements relating to the establishment and management of emergency accommodation, are being met by the service provider, including health and safety, fire, building regulations and other requirements." In reply to a parliamentary question I tabled on 12 December 2023, the Minister said:

The Local Authority have a regulatory role in relation to properties being brought on stream to verify that they meet the required building, planning and fire safety regulations. Once all the documentation is received, the Department continues to engage with the appropriate fire certification authorities to ensure fire certification is up to date and once evidence of sign-off is received from the relevant authorities and provided to the Department, a contract is signed for the use of that property.

No such document was received by the Minister or his Department from the local authority. That is a fact. How do I know that? A letter came into my possession, which I understand the Minister has a copy of, from a firm of solicitors in Dublin, written on behalf of Hallscotch Venture Limited, the owners of the shopping centre, to Fairkeep Limited, the occupants of the D Hotel. It states, among other things:

We would refer you to your letter [the Fairkeep Limited letter] of 20 February, wherein you confirmed that your Client was satisfied that the proposal was compliant with fire safety regulations. We are instructed that our Client has contacted Mr Eamonn Woulfe, Chief Fire Officer, Louth County Council, (to whom we are copying this letter) who confirmed that he wrote to your client and informed it that the proposed change from a hotel to IPAS accommodation requires an application to be made for a new fire safety certificate. Mr Woulfe further confirmed to our Client that as of lunchtime today, no response was received to his letter and no application has been lodged for a revised fire safety certificate.

There it is clear in black and white that the Minister did not conform to his own regulations. He did not insist on full compliance with his regulations and he signed a contract without a fire certificate, which is the cause and the reason for this concern.

The premises is now a huge controversy. People like me, who fully support IPA's applicants coming to town and have no issue with it, know that the anger is not because they are coming in, but because there was no consultation and there has been no fire certification to date, which is the other key point. That does not mean it is not going to follow, but it was not in place when the Minister signed. Therefore, the contract is null and void. The Minister has been asked to renegotiate the contract. Is he going to do that, and if not, why not?

I thank the Deputy and the other local TDs for their ongoing engagement on this matter. Ireland is now accommodating more than 100,000 people, between those fleeing the war in Ukraine and international protection applicants. Our accommodation system is under real pressure now. With all the limited accommodation capacity in the International Protection Accommodation Services, IPAS, system being used and given the significantly increased number of arrivals in the context of accommodation shortages, my Department has no option but to use all offers of accommodation made to it to address this accommodation shortfall. This has of course necessitated opening accommodation across the country

In recent weeks, we have seen particular pressure on the availability of family accommodation. This has required us to maximise the number of available beds for families. The alternative is that we will see families and female applicants being left homeless. That is the position I am left in.

My Department contacted the Deputy and other local TDs on 14 February to inform them that we were planning to use this accommodation. Subsequently, the community engagement team issued a briefing to TDs, Senators and councillors. They met Louth County Council officials and the community response forum. I have met the Deputy and other TDs, the county councillors representing Drogheda, urban and rural, and the local chamber of commerce.

With respect to the fire certificate, the Department seeks evidence of compliance with fire safety standards when appraising all offers of accommodation. The production of this evidence is mandatory and the local authority holds the remit for assessing compliance with fire safety and for enforcing the regulations around same. Where there is notification to the Department of possible non-compliance, we immediately engage with the contractor of the property, whose responsibility it is to ensure their premises meets the required standards. They engage directly with the local authority on the issue and the Department requests evidence that the matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of the local authority.

With respect to the D Hotel specifically, following an offer of this property to the Department, the standard appraisal of the offer was undertaken. A part of that was the provision of evidence of compliance with fire safety. That evidence was duly produced. The provider's fire safety compliance expert has confirmed that the building's fire certificate is fully compliant for the use of the hotel bedrooms. I understand that the provider is engaging with the fire officer on the matter, as the Deputy stated.

With respect to the suggestion that the D Hotel would be used for international protection applicants and paying guests, that proposal is still under consideration. No decision has been made. My officials have engaged with the hotel regarding an understanding of the layout and the particular concern around child safety in terms of the use of shared entrances, exits, lifts and stairs and that is ongoing. It is a challenge but the engagement is ongoing.

The Deputy knows and I acknowledge the frustration about the need to use this hotel. I recognise that the people of Drogheda have welcomed many international protection applicants and many Ukrainians over the past two years, and in some cases, long before that as well. I acknowledge that the most of the anger about this is to do with the removal of tourist beds. I understand it. All I can say is that I am left in the invidious position of securing accommodation or seeing people being left homeless. I understand this is something that no one in this House, or indeed anywhere else, wants either.

The Minister has not denied that he said on 12 December that the fire certification must be up to date and once evidence of sign-off is received from the local authority and provided to the Department, a contract is signed. Did his Department get a sign-off before he signed the contract? That is what he said he would do in December. In February, it is quite clear that the he did not get such a commitment and he signed off illegally. The Minister can shake his head if he wants; the fact is he did not do it. As I speak, the fire certificate has not been issued. The key point about the anger in Drogheda is because of the Minister's lack of consultation, a crowd from the Irish Freedom Party tried to stir up trouble in our town, as they did in other parts, and continue to do, burning places and God knows what. They had a rally in Drogheda and when they asked if somebody from Drogheda would speak, nobody did because nobody supports them. I do not support them and the people I speak for do not. However, they also do not support the Minister in what he has done. He said he still open to discussion. I believe that there is no contract now. If he needs to go in with a shared facility, he can go ahead and do that.

Well, the Minister may go ahead and do that, but he needs to know that as he speaks today, more than 220 places are on offer to his Department in different parts of Drogheda. I believe they will more than meet the need that the Minister will eventually meet in that hotel. I say to the Minister to take up those other places. Leave the hotel to the people. Leave the hotel to tourism. Leave the hotel to business interests. However, we do absolutely welcome, and always have done, all the people who come into our town.

Finally, more than 200 contracts have been signed since 2020, but none of them has a cooling-off period. Therefore, if the Minister finds that somebody has erred or made a mistake, or in the case that the Minister makes a mistake, there is no cooling-off period. The contracts stand regardless and that is bad ministerial and Government business. We want to be on the Minister’s side and not against him.

The Deputy speaks of a cooling-off period as if these are easy decisions that our Department is taking in a normal time. Again, we are responding to a humanitarian crisis and imminent homelessness. We have already seen that we are unable to provide accommodation for more than 1,000 male applicants as of today. We are close to being in that situation with families and female applicants as well.

I wish I was in the position where I had cooling-off periods in these situations, but I am not in that position, because I have a legal obligation to provide accommodation. I am failing in it and the Government is failing in it for 1,000 people right now. Deputy O’Dowd can shake his head about that, but that is the sad fact of it.

In the context of the D Hotel, evidence of compliance with fire certification was provided to my Department-----

We do not sign contracts without evidence of compliance with fire certification.

On the final point, the Deputy spoke of 220 spaces that are available in Drogheda. Those are spaces that under Government decisions can only be used by beneficiaries of temporary protection by Ukrainians.

The EU Commission first proposed the nature restoration law in June 2022. What was proposed then is a far different animal than that which was voted through the EU Parliament earlier this week. Notwithstanding the bona fides and goodwill of an EU-wide programme to increase biodiversity, restore habitats and allow nature to flourish, it could not, should not and will not be at the expense of Ireland's agriculture and food-producing sector. There was genuine fear and concern when it was first published. The reference to reducing the use of peaty soils, for example, would, of course, have heightened such fear and concern. I said publicly at that time that there was no recognition of the vast difference between soil types and land types here and in the Nordic countries and the likes of the Mediterranean ones. At that time, I said the proposal smelled of European imperialism. Thankfully, though, due in no small measure to engagement by members of my own party, Members of this House, some of our MEPs and during the process of this law weaving its way through the Council of Ministers, leaders and committees, not to mention the likes of the IFA meeting in Tullamore last year, this is a different animal. Many concerns have since been clarified and have rightly been rectified.

I want to use this opportunity to quell some of the scaremongering that still exists by affording the opportunity to the Ministers with responsibility in this area - which crosses two Departments - to clarify matters and state categorically to this House, to me and, by association, to those we represent, the truth of the matter, so people can clearly understand where we are at and where we are going.

Sometime after the first publication of the law, Teagasc rectified its initial correct calculation, confirming the potential of State lands, such as Bord na Móna and Coillte, to meet the State's obligations. Any scheme to promote, encourage or fund nature restoration will be voluntary. Any farm that opts not to participate will not have its single farm payment affected in any way. The funding that is provided towards such a scheme, which will be debated and agreed over the next two years after consultation, includes funding from Ireland's climate and nature fund, as per the budget of last October and from European funds that will be provided also. That funding will be separate and distinct from the CAP funding. Those are my takings from what was passed this week. Those are my takings from the consultation I have had with the Ministers for agriculture, as well as the Minister of State in the Department of housing, Deputy Noonan. They clarified those points to me, as have MEPs. I need it to be stated categorically in this House that that is the fact. Much scaremongering has been done by Members outside of this House. It suits them to give the impression that this is damaging, but it is not damaging at all. I will now allow the Minister of State to have that opportunity.

I thank Deputy Cowen for raising this important matter. The Government broadly supports the ambition of the nature restoration law, NRL, throughout its development and welcomes the vote to approve the regulation in the European Parliament earlier this week. Throughout the debate on these proposals, a key ambition for the Government has been to ensure that they achieve their key nature restoration objectives but allow farmers to continue to farm their land in a sustainable way. The current proposals differ in a number of important respects from those that were originally presented by the Commission and are more balanced and practical.

The Minister, Deputy McConalogue, actively engaged with the Minister, Deputy Darragh O’Brien and the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, whose Department leads on the file, to ensure that the agreed text addresses the needs of nature and that its provisions can be delivered but, importantly, also recognises the rights of farmers to farm their lands as they see fit and that any additional requirements are voluntary.

While the NRL remains ambitious, several elements have been introduced to ensure its objectives can be achieved while maintaining balance across the three pillars of sustainability, namely, environmental, social and, importantly, economic viability, with farmers at the heart of this. Such balance has been found in the inclusion of an emergency break for unforeseen events in the agricultural sector, flexibility in the delivery of rewetting targets, including the use of former peat extraction sites and an explicitly voluntary approach for landowners.

An assessment of condition under the habitats and birds directives is entirely different from an assessment of good agricultural and environmental conditions. The standards for this are defined under CAP Regulation 2021/2115. Further to this, the CAP regulation ensures that eligible areas are not reduced and remain eligible for direct payments when subject to Union requirements relating to environmental protection.

These elements fully safeguard Irish farmers from any perceived risk to CAP payments. I think that is a really important point and I know the Deputy is keen to see it being addressed. It is the national position that commitments made by farmers on a voluntary basis under the national restoration plan will not limit eligibility for payments under national or EU schemes.

The Government's position is that the State will lead on rewetting using State lands to shoulder the majority of the burden associated with rewetting. Any farmer engagement will be entirely voluntary and appropriately incentivised. Farmers’ very real engagement on biodiversity restoration is evidenced by the large number of farmers accepted into our flagship agri-environment scheme, ACRES, which has 46,000 participants. This scheme is delivering more than 1 million ha, scored last year for nature with payments accordingly to farmers.

We have many other exemplary initiatives being taken by farmers including LIFE and EIP projects. These actions are already supporting our ambitions under the NRL and provide a strong basis for the development of further measures to support the implementation of the national nature restoration plan.

The targets within the NRL are mandatory at member state level, and not for individuals. It is the member state’s obligation to identify the best mechanisms for the implementation of this. The development of Ireland’s nature restoration plan is being co-ordinated by the Department of housing. As previously stated, the Government has indicated that a voluntary approach will be used across sectors to incentivise delivery.

The detail of such will be expanded throughout the development of the plan. The Minister, Deputy McConalogue, will continue to ensure farmers are at the heart of the design of our nature restoration plan and are involved at all stages in the delivery of any targets that are beneficial for nature and society. Farmers can have confidence that no changes will be forced on them and that they can continue to produce the high-quality food that Ireland is renowned for.

It is recognised that many of the habitats which require restoration require active land management to achieve their favourable condition. Farmers will be key actors in delivering this ambition and will be supported appropriately to do so. One of key tasks of the nature restoration planning process will be to identify the design, targets and incentive schemes to deliver restoration measures, including consideration of national and EU funding opportunities and a comprehensive assessment of funding needs. Completion of the nature restoration plan will be aligned with the opening of the Government’s €3 billion climate and nature fund in 2026. This fund will play an important role in resourcing the measures in the nature restoration plan. The Government’s approach to the development of the plan will ensure farming communities can continue to actively farm in a sustainable way while also achieving our targets for nature restoration.

I thank the Minister of State for his response and the clarity associated with it. It is imperative in light of the reaction by some to what was agreed this week that the Government clearly state in this House that any scheme will be voluntary, we can meet our commitment from State lands, anybody who does not participate will not be impacted in respect of their single farm payment, and this funding will be separate from CAP. I note that the funding is in place from the climate fund and nature fund, as was committed to in the budget last year, and that there is a commitment on the part of the EU.

On sustainable farming and initiatives such as this, we need to move away from the metric of income forgone and costs incurred. You get your costs but you have to be rewarded for the initiative you are taking. There is a gain on the part of nature, society and sustainable farming. We can and will, no doubt, retain our status and standing. We are conscious that the move is to sustainability. Investment funds and capital programmes are all geared towards models that are sustainable. For us to retain our status and enhance it, we have to move in that direction. However, we cannot move ahead of the farming community, the farming sector or those who produce the quality of food we have. We have to bring them with us and invest in them. We have to put that investment first, not on a costs incurred metric but on the basis of costs incurred plus a reward mechanism, to show we are capable of acknowledging the investment they are making. They need to be rewarded for it because the gain is many generations down the road.

I reiterate that while we support the ambition, we are fully committed to ensuring farmers will be key actors in the development and delivery of the wider nature restoration plan. The Deputy is correct that we need to have a partnership approach, with Government working with the farming community and the agricultural sector. If we look across Europe at how certain countries have managed this process, it leaves a lot to be desired. The European Commission and the wider European institutions need to make sure everything we do in the context of this challenge is by way of a partnership approach that builds more sustainable models and partners with the farming and agricultural community in doing so. Otherwise we polarise communities and undermine our society, which undermines the wider economy and economic potential.

It is important we give clarity that there are absolute safeguards for Irish farmers from any perceived risks to CAP payments, as the Deputy has mentioned. Balance has to be found, as I said earlier, and there has to be flexibility in the delivery of rewetting targets, including the use of former peat extraction sites. It has to be explicitly voluntary when it comes to landowners. That is why the Government's position is that the State itself will lead on rewetting, using State lands to shoulder the majority of the burden associated with this ambition. Farmers can have confidence that no changes will be forced on them and that they can continue to produce the high-quality food that Ireland is renowned for. We still have a very ambitious policy within the Department of agriculture and the Department of enterprise on an export-led oriented model. We want to work with farmers to make sure the future around that is done in a sustainable way, ensuring Ireland has the competitive edge in European and wider export markets. That is the balance that is being struck in the context of the negotiations for the Minster, Deputy McConalogue. To the Deputy's point, it has to be done via a partnership approach, protecting farm incomes and payments. We will work with all colleagues around that.