Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 28 Nov 2023

I move:

Tuesday's business shall be Statements on Policing, Protests and Public Order (not to exceed 3 hrs 32 mins).

Tuesday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Irish Neutrality, selected by Sinn Féin.

Wednesday's business shall be:

- Motion to Instruct the Committee on the Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2023 (without debate and any division claimed to be taken immediately prior to Report Stage)

- Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2023 (to conclude within 57 minutes)

- Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2023 – Motion for a Financial Resolution (to be taken no earlier than 3.30 p.m., without debate, and any division claimed to be taken immediately)

- Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2023 (Committee and remaining Stages) (to conclude within 60 mins)

- Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2023 (Report and Final Stages) (to conclude within 60 minutes)

- Garda Síochána (Recording Devices) Bill 2022 (Amendments from the Seanad) (if not previously concluded, to adjourn after 90 minutes)

- Credit Union (Amendment) Bill 2022 [Seanad] (Report and Final Stages) (if not previously concluded, to adjourn either at 9 p.m. or after two hours, whichever is the later)

- Motions for Supplementary Estimates for Public Services [Votes 2, 5, 7, 9, 11 to 14, 17, 18, 20 to 22, 24 to 28, 30 to 34, 37, 38, 40, 42, 43 and 45] (to be moved together and decided without debate by one question, and any division demanded thereon to be taken immediately)

Wednesday's private members' business shall be Second Stage of the Capital Supply Service and Purpose Report Bill 2023, selected by the Regional Group.

Thursday's business shall be Second Stage of Planning and Development Bill 2023 (if not previously concluded, to adjourn either at 6.15 p.m. or after 3 hrs 1 min, whichever is the later).

Thursday evening business shall be the Motion re Special Report by the Ombudsman for Children entitled "Safety and Welfare of Children in Direct Provision".

Proposed Arrangements for this week's business:

In relation to Tuesday's business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:

(i) the Dáil shall sit later than 10.32 p.m.; and

(ii) the time allotted to Government business shall be extended in accordance with the arrangements for the Statements on Policing, Protests and Public Order, with consequential effect on the commencement times for the items following in the ordinary routine of business, namely, private members' business, Parliamentary Questions to the Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform, and topical issues; and

2. the following arrangements shall apply in relation to the Statements on Policing, Protests and Public Order:

(i) the statements shall not exceed 202 minutes, and the arrangements for that time shall be in accordance with the Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, and the Resolution of the Dáil of 20th September, 2023;

(ii) following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and

(iii) members may share time.

In relation to Wednesday's business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:

(i) oral Parliamentary Questions to the Taoiseach pursuant to Standing Order 46(1) shall not be taken, and the SOS pursuant to Standing Order 25(1) shall commence at the time when oral Parliamentary Questions to the Taoiseach would normally be taken, and shall continue until 2.35 p.m., with consequential effect on the commencement time for Government business;

(ii) the Motion for a Financial Resolution for the Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2023 shall be taken without debate immediately prior to Committee Stage of the Bill, but in any event no earlier than 3.30 p.m.;

(iii) the weekly division time may be taken later than 8.45 p.m., and shall in any event be taken on the interruption of proceedings on the Credit Union (Amendment) Bill 2022 [Seanad], or where that Bill concludes within its allotted time, on its conclusion, with consequential effect on the time for the adjournment of the Dáil; and

(iv) the Motions for Supplementary Estimates for Public Services [Votes 2, 5, 7, 9, 11 to 14, 17, 18, 20 to 22, 24 to 28, 30 to 34, 37, 38, 40, 42, 43 and 45] shall be taken without debate immediately following the weekly division time;

2. notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order 170(2), the proceedings on Second Stage of the Capital Supply Service and Purpose Report Bill 2023 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 2 hours;

3. notwithstanding anything in Standing Order 187, the Motion to instruct the Committee on the Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2023 shall be taken without debate and any division demanded thereon will be taken immediately prior to Report Stage of the Bill;

4. the proceedings on the Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2023 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 57 minutes, and the following arrangements shall apply thereto:

(i) the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be as follows:

- opening speech by a Minister or Minister of State – 10 minutes;

- speech by representative of Sinn Féin - 10 minutes;

- speeches by representatives of the Labour Party, Social Democrats, People-Before-Profit-Solidarity, the Regional Group, the Rural Independent Group and the Independent Group - 5 minutes per party or group;

- speeches by non-aligned members – 2 minutes; and

- a speech in response by the Minister – 5 minutes; and

(ii) members may share time;

5. any division claimed on the Motion for a Financial Resolution for the Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2023 shall be taken immediately;

6. the proceedings on Committee and remaining Stages of the Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2023 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 1 hour by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Health;

7. the proceedings on Report and Final Stages of the Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2023 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 1 hour by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage;

8. the proceedings on the amendments from the Seanad to the Garda Síochána (Recording Devices) Bill 2022 shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and stand adjourned after 1 hour and 30 minutes and shall not be resumed on Wednesday;

9. the proceedings on Report and Final Stages of the Credit Union (Amendment) Bill 2022 [Seanad], shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and stand adjourned at either 9 p.m. or after 2 hours, whichever is the later, and shall not be resumed on Wednesday; and

10. the Motions for Supplementary Estimates for Public Services [Votes 2, 5, 7, 9, 11 to 14, 17, 18, 20 to 22, 24 to 28, 30 to 34, 37, 38, 40, 42, 43 and 45] shall be moved together and decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and any division demanded thereon shall be taken immediately.

In relation to Thursday's business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:

(i) oral Parliamentary Questions to the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs shall be taken at the time when Government business would normally commence, and shall be followed by Government business: Provided that the rota of Questions as provided for in Standing Order 47(2) shall be otherwise unaffected; and

(ii) topical issues may be taken earlier than 7.24 p.m., and shall in any event be taken on the adjournment of Second Stage of the Planning and Development Bill 2023, or in the event Second Stage of that Bill concludes within the allotted time, on the conclusion thereof, and the Motion re Special Report of the Ombudsman for Children entitled "Safety and Welfare of Children in Direct Provision" shall be taken on the conclusion of topical issues, with consequential effect on the time for the adjournment of the Dáil;

2. the proceedings on Second Stage of the Planning and Development Bill 2023 shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and stand adjourned either at 6.15 p.m. or after 3 hours and 1 minute, whichever is the later; and

the arrangements as provided for in Standing Order 102 shall apply to the proceedings on the Motion re Special Report by the Ombudsman for Children entitled "Safety and Welfare of Children in Direct Provision".

We had asked last week for the Dáil to be reconvened to have a proper discussion on recent events. That was not agreed by the Government. We also asked for questions to the Minister for Justice, not statements. Our request in that regard was also not agreed. We ask for the Order of Business to be amended in order that the Minister can take questions. We have asked for accountability but there has not been any sign of it. People can see there is a lack of control. They need to feel safe, not only for themselves but also for their children. We need the Minister to answer the questions.

On the same topic, it is welcome that there is to be a debate this afternoon, but it is very much a reaction to what happened last Thursday. We believe there should have been a back-and-forth discussion. There may well be agreement to make a change in that regard. In the absence of that, there needs to be a further debate next week in order that we can take stock. There should be a back-and-forth engagement with the Minister for Justice in order that we can see what proactive responses are possible in the context of what happened last week, rather than a reaction. We believe that needs to happen. It needs to be put on the agenda for next week.

On the basis of the Taoiseach's replies during Leaders' Questions, I call once again for a reasonable and rational debate on inward migration, including on illegal and undocumented people coming here. I do not want any lectures from the liberal left here. I have been asking for this reasonable debate for months at meetings of the Business Committee. If we are to really examine issues, we have to have a debate. As the Taoiseach said, he is debating this with everybody. We have to have a debate in here; this is not an echo chamber. I failed to put the matter on the Business Committee’s agenda this week or next week on behalf of my group. We are soon going to have the Christmas recess. Will we not have it then either? We badly need a reasonable, calm, intelligent and understanding debate. We have to have it sooner rather than later.

I echo the calls for a proper over-and back debate with the Minister for Justice regarding what happened last Thursday night. We agreed with calls for the House to reconvene yesterday to have a proper, full debate on what happened on Thursday, when the city was effectively on fire. We cannot have preprepared speeches read into the record of the House; we need to have a proper conversation over and back and get proper answers and accountability.

Last week, Ukrainian military officers were assessed by NATO assessors at Lynch Camp, Kilworth, County Cork. Many people will be amazed to hear that. No doubt, the Government will say it is within the law and falls under the Partnership for Peace arrangements. If it can happen when the current legal arrangements are in place, I can only imagine what might happen when the Government changes those arrangements and scraps the triple lock. The Government is chipping away at so-called Irish neutrality every week. When the Business Committee meets this week, I request that it discuss the scheduling of a debate on the triple lock before the Christmas recess.

I thank the Deputies. There will be statements today on law and order and the events of last Thursday. Tomorrow, the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, will take Taoiseach's Questions and Questions on Promised Legislation in my stead for the best part of an hour, during which time she may be asked questions on any matter Members wish to ask about. I will be attending COP28 in Dubai so will not be able to attend in the House tomorrow.

There are no plans for a guillotine on the Planning and Development Bill. Second Stage was delayed. We have no plans at present for a guillotine.

A debate on migration is a matter for the Business Committee to schedule. I have no objection to it whatsoever, but I would suggest that we would need some ground rules and the professionalism of a very strong Chair for such a debate.

I understand that a motion on neutrality is being taken this week.

On Friday, the Taoiseach's Government broke another shameful record. Over 13,000 people are now homeless in this State. Nearly 4,000 of those are children. Behind those numbers are real lives damaged by the housing crisis and childhoods stolen as kids grow up in hotels, bed and breakfast accommodation and hubs instead of a place they can truly call home. This awful experience is the sharp edge of the failure of the Government's housing policy. It is a living nightmare for people.

I would like the Taoiseach to set out today what the Government will do to bring this crisis to an end. Where is the emergency response, the extraordinary response required to meet the seriousness of this situation now, without further delay? The first thing the Government needs to do is reinstate the ban on no-fault evictions. Will the Government do that?

We do not intend to do that. The number of people in emergency accommodation continued to rise when the ban was in place. All it does, unfortunately, is make the problem worse later. There is no one solution, but the main solution, we believe, is to continue to accelerate the construction of social housing and public housing. I believe this year will be a record year for the amount of social and public housing built, the highest, certainly, since the mid-seventies.

It was a desperate week. Due to the horror of the attack and subsequent riot in Dublin on Thursday, undoubtedly the homelessness figures were pushed down the political agenda, but I also want to raise the matter because it was a very sad milestone for our country to see over 13,000 people now recorded as homeless, nearly 4,000 of whom are children. I too ask what the Government is doing about it because there is a sense from the Government of almost a helplessness and a lack of control. Just as policing was out of control on Thursday night, it seems there is no sense that the Government has homelessness under control.

If the Government is not proposing to reintroduce the temporary no-fault eviction ban this winter, what does it propose to do to help those who are now in homelessness, those families in emergency accommodation as we speak, and to help the rough sleepers on the streets of our capital city and other cities around the country? What is the Government going to do to protect those who are renting and now in fear of entering homelessness as they face the prospect of eviction during the winter months ahead? What does the Government propose to do?

I thank the Deputy. Just over 13,000 people are in receipt of emergency accommodation from the State at the moment. It is not the same 13,000 people all the time, as the Deputy knows. There are people coming into homelessness and others going out of homelessness. Our objective is to ensure homelessness is rare, that it is not repeated and that when it occurs, it is short lived. At the moment, people who experience homelessness spend roughly six to nine months in homelessness. That is a long time, particularly for a child, and the best thing we can do is to speed up the provision of social housing so we have options and can get people into secure tenancies as quickly as possible.

Under this Government's watch, there has been an unprecedented breakdown in law and order. The streets of this city were surrendered to a far-right and violent mob for hours on Thursday. We in Ireland like to think of ourselves as living in the land of céad míle fáilte, but tens of thousands of our migrant population do not feel welcome. Many now feel unsafe, threatened and even targeted. People now worry about their children when they leave the house to go to school or to meet their friends. It is an indictment on our society that there are people living in this country who are too afraid to leave their homes. Because of their skin colour or ethnicity, people feel there is a target on their backs.

A basic requirement of any government is to keep people safe and the events of recent days have proved they are not. Given this abject failure, on what basis does the Taoiseach have confidence in the Garda Commissioner and justice Minister?

I thank the Deputy. What happened in Dublin last Thursday was shocking. Children were stabbed in broad daylight on their way from school to crèche and a riot then ensued on our streets that evening. I believe those are exceptional events and it is my job to ensure they are exceptional and that we do not see them happening again. That is why there is, and will be, a robust response from the Government and the Garda.

The Fianna Fáil mayor of Cork county told a gathering in Fermoy this month that he would have no problem joining a blockade of asylum seekers due to be provided with accommodation in the town. He made the statement while standing alongside a far-right agitator with a long track record of anti-immigrant rhetoric and activity. The mayor has since made what I consider to be a mealy-mouthed apology for his comments. He made that apology under pressure and only after the riots of last Thursday.

In Leitrim, a crowd of people has protested outside a hotel earmarked for asylum seeker and refugee accommodation. A vigilante blockade has been mounted on streets in and out of the village of Dromahair. Vehicles have been stopped and people have been asked what is their business in the town. At least in some instances, people have been asked for passport identification. Do these people mounting this blockade have the active support of Government councillors in the town?

I thank the Deputy. Those sorts of actions do not have any place in our society. The Government has been clear throughout our response to the needs of people newly arriving in this country. The Government engages with communities and provides information but it is not a question of consultation and it is not a question of a veto. No community or individual has a veto over who lives in their town and who lives beside them. That is why we have a community engagement group that is engaged in Dromahair, Fermoy and other places around the country.

Storm Debi hit Ireland on Sunday night and Monday morning, 12 and 13 November, with the storm doing extensive damage to a number of businesses in Galway and, in particular, in Clarinbridge.

Shops and businesses were destroyed when a 4 ft high storm surge swept in in ten minutes and out in 15, destroying everything in its path.

While these businesses have welcomed the emergency fund relief scheme of up to €100,000, unfortunately, it will not cover the costs of refurbishing some of these shops and businesses following the sea damage. A number of these businesses have damage costs in excess of €200,000 to €300,000. One shop has damage of more than €800,000 and no flood insurance.

Will the Taoiseach commit to increasing the Red Cross business emergency fund to cover the damage to these businesses caused by Storm Debi?

On foot of the flooding in Midleton we increased the maximum grant from €20,000 to €100,000. We do not have any plans to raise it further but I will let the Minister, Deputy Coveney, know that the Deputy raised it. If he has the detail and information, we can take a look at it. I do not want to raise expectations I might not be able to meet but I appreciate that, while €20,000 or €100,000 might cover almost all businesses, it does not cover everyone.

There is a very thin line between anarchy and good living. I support gardaí in their efforts always and, indeed, last Thursday night. Shamefully, however, the numbers of gardaí in my county have dropped to an appalling level. Carrick-On-Suir, with 5,000 in its town and hinterland, has four gardaí and two sergeants. Its complement is 14 gardaí and four sergeants. Up in Clonmel, it is almost as bad, and there is Cahir, Cashel station, which has been closed and there is no night service, right up to Roscrea, Thurles and Templemore. It is all the areas. Then last week, they were all asked to come up and they are being continually asked to come up to do extra work in Dublin for overtime with the €10 million the Government gave, supposedly. This is diminishing the numbers of gardaí in rural counties, including Tipperary in my case, by taking them to Dublin. I know Dublin has to be policed but so too has the rest of the country. It is an appalling lack of gardaí under the Taoiseach’s watch and that of the Minister. They have continually failed to give the proper support so that An Garda Síochána has the proper numbers and resources which it deserves and needs. The force serves us loyally but it needs support and numbers.

I agree that all parts of the country need to be adequately policed and not just our city centres. We are now back up to around 14,000 Garda members. Some 700 to 800 recruits will go through the Garda College this year. There will be 800 to 1,000 next year, and we anticipate we will be up to 14,500 gardaí again by the end of 2024. When the Garda College was closed during the pandemic, we lost over a year of recruitment. We are bouncing back from that now. Garda staff are being employed in unprecedented numbers to free up gardaí. We have more than 3,000 Garda staff. That is an increase of 43% from 2015.

It has been reported in the Galway media that the Galway Harbour Company is about to complete a deal with the Land Development Agency. This is cause for serious concern to me because of what is proposed. The subject of the transfer is six acres. I am not sure at what price that public land, held by the harbour company in trust for the people of Galway, is being transferred to the Land Development Agency. Equally of great concern to me is the headlines that on this public land we will have premium housing as opposed to premium social housing and premium affordable housing. Considering the serious crisis in Galway, that land should be used for public housing. I cannot tell you how bad the crisis is in Galway. I repeat it week after week when I take part in debates. Then I see that there is to be premium housing on public land.

Each year, the social inclusion fund provides moneys to areas of significant urban disadvantage. Several areas in my own city benefit from that funding: St. Mary’s Parish, South Hill, Moyross, Ballinacurra-Weston. They have recently been informed that as a result of a decision by the Department of Social Protection, their funding next year will be cut by 59%. The purpose of the fund is to promote social cohesion and prevent young people from those areas in particular from drifting into a life of crime. Looking at what happened in Dublin last week, I am sure the Taoiseach will agree that this is a very wrong-headed decision at this time. Will the Government reverse this decision? Will he suggest to the Minister of State at the Department of Social Protection that he meet representatives of those communities because he has so far refused to do so?

I am not aware of that decision having been made and I will look into it. It sounds quite concerning. Maybe there is a reason for it, I do not know, but I would be quite concerned about any cuts of that nature for community funding. The Minister of State, Deputy O’Brien, is responsible for that area and I will get my office to contact him today and ask him to speak to the Deputy directly.

The organic farm schemes in this country have been quite successful and quite attractive to farmers, with the increase in their incomes and the better impact on our environment. I pay thanks to the work of the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, and the Ministers of State, Deputy Heydon and Senator Hackett. When will the organic farm payment be paid out? It is coming close to Christmas and everybody needs their payments. When is the closing date for new entrants to the organic farm schemes?

This is a key priority for the Government and something on which the Minister of State, Senator Hackett, has led out very strongly. It has been great to see the very strong uptake and interest in organics following the fivefold increase the Government has allocated under this CAP to support organic farming. Payments for existing organic farmers will start on Thursday, 7 December and continue from then on. The closing date for new applicants will be on the following day, Friday, 8 December.

Dublin is clearly underpoliced. There are not enough gardaí in our capital city and I do not think anyone disputes that after last Thursday. However, it needs to be said that the rest of the State is also underpoliced. In County Monaghan, I regularly hear from people in each of our towns and villages who tell me they feel unsafe walking up their main street for the first time in their lives. After 12 years of Fine Gael governments, we have fewer gardaí and fewer Garda stations in our county than when it came to office. This year, of the 227 gardaí who came out of Templemore, 165 have been deployed to Dublin. If that continues, virtually every single area outside Dublin will have fewer gardaí next year than this year. Will the Taoiseach ensure that will not happen and that the necessary resources going to police Dublin are not at the expense of other counties?

It is important that all parts of the State and all counties are adequately policed. I agree on that. We are back up to about 14,000 Garda members at the moment. We expect 700 to 800 recruits through the Garda College this year, rising to 800 to 1,000 next year. That will allow total Garda numbers to increase to 14,500 by the end of next year. We are raising the minimum age at which you can join the Garda. We will also increase the retirement age to allow more experienced gardaí to stay on if they want to. We will make a formal decision on that in a matter of weeks. I have also asked the Minister, Deputy McEntee, to come up with any new proposals that we may be able to put in place quickly to increase numbers.

Diabetes has a major impact on the Irish healthcare system. It counts for a significant proportion of annual spending. However, there is a lack of clarity and transparency around how this money is being spent specifically on diabetes priority actions. I call on the Government to take the following steps to address the issue: develop a comprehensive national diabetes strategy to direct policy; establish a diabetes patient registry to collect and analyse data on the prevalence, incidence and complications of diabetes in Ireland; develop consistent guidelines on the provision and funding of continuous glucose monitoring devices by the HSE; and provide new and updated clinical guidelines to reflect the latest evidence-based practice for type 1 and type 2 diabetes. With the right supports, people with diabetes can live long, healthy lives. I urge the Government to take the necessary steps to ensure people who have diabetes have the best access to healthcare in this country.

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue of diabetes. I am not sure if it has been raised with me in the House before. It is such a common illness that it is good to hear it being raised. It is extraordinarily common. Most people will have a family member who has diabetes. There are many different types, and people who have diabetes often have many other illnesses or co-morbidities. However, if it is managed well and looked after, people with diabetes can live long, healthy lives and avoid those co-morbidities, which is why it is so important it is treated well.

I agree with the Deputy that we need better data. A national patient register would help in many ways, including allowing us to track patients so they do not get lost to follow-up and allowing us to carry out better research. I will definitely speak to the Minister, Deputy Donnelly, about it.

The 16 days of activism against gender-based violence campaign began this weekend on 25 November, International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women. It runs until 10 December, which is Human Rights Day. The campaign calls for the prevention and elimination of violence against women and girls. Everyone has the right to be free from violence. Much work is going on in the background to provide supports to women who are fleeing violence in Carlow. We are closer than ever to having a women's refuge. Carlow's Women's Aid has been giving a safe and comfortable space for women and their children to be during court hearings, which is very important. An abuse accountability seminar took place this morning in the Woodford Dolmen Hotel. I was delighted to attend it. I ask everyone who can to light a candle for UNiTE on Friday, 1 December and Friday, 8 December in solidarity with those affected by domestic violence and abuse.

The Taoiseach previously committed to engaging with all relevant stakeholders, including advocacy groups, families of those affected and front-line care workers, on the forthcoming inquiry into Covid-19. In the media, I see the Government has cleared the terms of reference for the inquiry. However, from my engagement with stakeholders such as Care Champions and others, I am aware they have yet to have any input into it. I want to see an inquiry that is full, transparent and efficiently time-bound to ensure clear facts are established, especially relating to older people, those in nursing homes and other vulnerable groups of people. How, when and with whom does the Taoiseach intend to engage to realise his previous commitment to me, this House and the stakeholders?

The terms of reference have not yet been cleared by the Government, but we hope to do so in the coming weeks. There will be consultation with the Opposition parties. I think there was a form of public consultation already, but I would have to double-check that. The inquiry will be independent and time-bound.

Following a request by the people of Killarney, especially the Muckross Road, about the placing of 77 asylum seekers in 22 rooms in Harmony Inn, I requested that the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, meet with a delegation of the people of Killarney. He responded to me with an email stating he would. However, this meeting has not taken place. Will the Taoiseach ensure the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, meets the delegation because its members are concerned and want to raise their concerns with him. They are also concerned that another premises is being prepared for more people. Engagement is needed and I ask the Taoiseach to ensure the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, meets the delegation from the Muckross Road and that area of Killarney.

I listened to the Taoiseach's responses earlier and I agree that, as a country, we are far richer because of the diversity of the people who have chosen to live here and call this country their home. The Government's response to those seeking international protection has been largely comprehensive given the huge numbers. That said, challenges remain, such as in seeking appropriate accommodation. The Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, brought forward a proposal to impose a 90-day limit. Another challenge is that some seeking international protection have come from safe countries and already have protection in other safe countries. A further challenge is the time it takes for an application to be processed. We need a fair, compassionate, balanced and realistic debate in this House. If we do not have that debate in this House, we run the risk of leaving the debate to people on the extremes and that could be dangerous. I support the calls made earlier today for us to initiate a debate on this matter in the near future.

The Deputy is absolutely right. I would welcome such a debate. I agree it should be fair, balanced and measured. It is also important that it be informed. I am not an expert on immigration law, but I worry when I hear Members of this and the other House mixing up international protection with temporary protection or EEA with EU. We in this Chamber are well paid and we all have a duty to understand the facts and know the basics around migration. I certainly agree we should have a debate.

I have a constituent who is a farmer and lives alone. He had a prosthetic leg and, for genetic reasons, had his second leg removed. He piled on weight while he was in hospital. He was referred to the centre for obesity management on 8 September 2022 and was triaged in September 2022 as an urgent case. He was told he should anticipate an appointment in approximately five years' time. Obesity is supposed to be one of the big challenges of our time. Something is wrong. The system is broken. I have written to the Minister for Health. I have asked parliamentary questions. Will the Taoiseach use his good offices to look into this case?

I would be happy to look into it. If the Deputy passes on the details to my office along with permission from the gentleman for me to make representations on his behalf, I will certainly do so. Our target is that no one who needs to see a specialist would have to wait more than ten or 12 weeks. Unfortunately, approximately 400,000 people are waiting longer than that at the moment. However, five years is extraordinarily long for any condition so I would be happy to look into that.

Once again, I raise the issue of the significant inequitable financial treatment under the fair deal scheme meted out to public nursing homes on the one hand and private, community and voluntary nursing homes on the other. As a result, many small, family-run, often rural nursing homes are finding themselves in real financial trouble. Last week, two former TDs, Dr. Jerry Cowley and Dr. Michael Harty, who are both chairs of community, voluntary, not-for-profit nursing homes located within a few kilometres of public nursing homes which receive between €600 and €700 more per patient per week than their nursing homes do, stated they are both in significant financial trouble. A state-aid complaint has been lodged with the European Commission. What will the Minister of State do to address this huge discrepancy?

This year €1.4 billion will be provided by the Government to support 22,500 people to age well in a nursing home. The purpose of the fair deal scheme is that the more you have, the more you pay; the less you have, the less you pay. No one ever envisaged the fair deal scheme would be used by European conglomerates for profit. The Deputy asked a clear question. I met with Dr. Cowley last week in Leinster House and gave him a commitment to travel. All the details need to be on the table. Unfortunately, due to HIQA compliance rules, Dr. Cowley has to reduce the number of beds in his premises so that he can have single rooms. As a result he lost some funding. I also visited Dr. Harty's voluntary organisation in Ennis.

I agree with the Deputy as regards the voluntary sector. When its members are challenged to comply with HIQA rules, it can be difficult for them because they do not have any reserves. In the coming weeks, I will announce a €10 million fund for nursing homes to become HIQA compliant.