Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 15 Nov 2023

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, for his indulgence. I wanted to make a few comments on the legislation before the House and the fact that this is the product of a new entity, the Electoral Commission, that we have been long promised and has been long talked about. It is great to actually have it in existence. All other electoral boundaries that were presented, and by convention passed without amendment, were proposed by an ad hoc commission, though always of a very eminent kind. This is the first time we have had a statutory permanent commission, the remit of which goes well beyond electoral boundaries and very importantly will be looking at a whole range of electoral law issues that are fundamental to our democracy.

By convention, we do not normally propose amendments to this legislation because every Deputy would have his own views on the correct decisions in terms of boundaries. However, I have to put on the record of the House the great degree of concern that has been expressed. I have represented the constituency of Wexford, as I said last night, for 37 years in this House. For all that time, it was the geographical entity that is County Wexford. For the first time in a very long time, it is being divided now and not in any rational or coherent way. The top third of the county has been sliced off. The guidelines given to the Electoral Commission were to respect county boundaries as far as practicable. Obviously it is not practicable when you are trying to get accurate and fair numbers but where county boundaries were to be breached, electoral area boundaries were to be respected. In terms of the new constituency of Wicklow-Wexford, that is not the case. There will be a situation now where there will be county councillors in the areas of Kilmuckridge or Enniscorthy whose electoral area will be part of two different Dáil constituencies. I do not think that is best for coherence and I hope this will be a very temporary situation.

The county boundaries are important - the Minister of State's colleague Deputy Matthews said last night that they are not, that they are a Victorian or 19th-century concept and that we have to be thinking beyond boundaries - not only in terms of people's natural affinity and affiliation but also in terms of public administration. Think of the county council, the providers of public services, the people we look to in terms of crisis, flood or storm. It is our county council we look to in those situations. It is important that, as far as possible, county councillors have a coherent set of Dáil Deputies to whom they look to argue for the needs of their county, whether that is around transport, housing or issues at an emergency level like fire and flood and so on. I hope the division of Wexford in the way it has happened in this review will be temporary.

I made my own submission to the commission. I was one of many. I argued, obviously, for the coherent keeping of a county boundary in my own county of Wexford. I also argued for the creation of six-seat constituencies. I think the Minister of State would agree with my analysis that the whole idea of our form of proportional representation, the single transferable vote, PR-STV, is designed to give proportionality. Perfect proportionality cannot be achieved in small constituencies. If there are three seats in a constituency, you cannot have a truly proportional representative result. The votes are skewed. A six-seat constituency would give a much better proportionate result from the people's number one vote on a ballot paper than a three-seater, a four-seater or a five-seater. It would be something desirable for the future. It was not possible and I dare say the Minister of State and his party would have argued for this particular commission's work to allow for six-seaters. The more three-seaters there are, the more disproportionate the outcome will be.

We have worked very well in coalition structures in this jurisdiction. In parliaments like that of the UK, for example, there are disproportionate results. In other words, if a party gets 40% or 45% of the first preference vote at an election it will get an overall majority, sometimes a thumping overall majority. Then in the next election, a similar minority will give a different government. Policy oscillates, often to extremes and often to the detriment of the continuum of public policy. A more representative parliament that has all strands of opinion is a good thing. It anchors more people to our democratic institutions. I would hope that is something the Minister of State will take from this debate and bring back to the Department. Sometimes larger parties, and those that will become larger parties, will have a different perspective when they have power and they will say that maybe it is as well not to make that change. Overall, in the fullness of the political system, it is a much better representative situation and a much better outcome for democracy. If people feel their views are not represented in the national Parliament, as happens in many jurisdictions right now, they are actually turned off by the political system because it is not representative of them. They are very easily manipulated then to undermine democracy itself. That is a very important point.

One thing that is a perennial point of debate in all the discussions we have about elections is the accuracy of the electoral register. I welcome a number of the innovations we now have, such as people being able to register online. Having an open register is very important. People can register at any time and we now have pre-registration for younger people, who can register even before they are 18 on the basis that when they turn 18 they will be formally included in the register of electors. All of those are good reforms but I still think we need to ensure people are on it. Having ads telling them to check the register is a good thing but I do not think it is enough. I am not sure I can present an alternative to that but we need to have some sort of campaign, even if it is a door-to-door campaign, asking people if they are on the register and telling them to check. When a new estate is built and people move in, maybe they could get a note from the local authority telling them they need to register if they want their vote to be counted and telling them how to do it.

I recommend that sort of outreach approach, as opposed to passively leaving it up to people to do it.

Another point that is important to make is of fundamental importance to the future of democracy in this country and in the world. The undermining of democracy through disinformation and misinformation has been seen starkly in some referendums internationally. The role of analytics and manipulation of public information targeted at individuals, for example during the Brexit referendum campaign, has shocked many people into thinking we need to protect our electoral process. More and more people, especially young people, get all their information online. My generation assumed that the way to get information in an unbalanced way was from the State broadcaster or the national newspapers, but that is no longer the source from which most people consume information. Algorithms now generate people's information stream and often deepen prejudice because people are led incrementally down an alleyway of disinformation. I hope it will be an important task of the Electoral Commission to tackle that. It will be a monumental job and it cannot be done in Ireland alone. It will have to be done in concert with other democratic countries.

For much of my political career, I was of the view that we were on a path to further and deeper democracy, and to the spread of democratic values, as part of the natural course of history. Recent years have indicated that is not necessarily the case. We have a significant rise in autocracy. One of the startling things I read recently from Eurostat was that up to 30% of young Europeans now admire the strong person - I was going to say the strong man - type of leader. We see that manifested in elections across the globe. It is as though we have forgotten or lost the lessons we learned from the 1930s about the strong person and how destructive, brutal and tyrannical the rise of fascism in Italy and Nazi Germany became and was from the beginning, in truth. Yet, many people now laud the strong person and say what we need is a strong autocratic leader. We need to take stock of that, as the preservation of our democratic values is not set in stone. They can be undermined. I hope one of the jobs the Electoral Commission will do is to look internationally at how we can work to tackle disinformation and address the issue of selling the values of democracy, which is, in Churchill's words, a bad system, but the best available. That is the simple truth. Our democratic systems are far from perfect. They fail people in many instances, but they are better than anything else on offer and certainly better than the autocratic systems we see rising in strength elsewhere.

With regards to the work emanating from the future of Europe debate and how we will progress the European Union, one of the things that concerns me is the rise of autocrats. I hope we have seen a reversal of that in Poland's most recent election, but unfortunately there has been a step in the wrong direction in Slovakia. Orbán in Hungary is in essence blackmailing the European Union by using funding for Ukraine to make demands. We also need to strengthen the value systems in the EU and to ensure the norms we understood to be the cornerstone of the liberal democratic traditions of Europe are enshrined.

I have said all I want to say about this Bill. I got up to put on the record my deep concerns about the division of my constituency and the way it was done, since I cannot vote against it. Someone described it by saying it seemed as though the rest of the jigsaw was done and that was the last piece so whatever fit in was included. It was a sundering of a constituency. I hope this constituency of Wicklow-Wexford will be temporary. I wish whoever is elected in that constituency well. It will be a three-seater constituency. They will have to represent two counties with the expectation or half-expectation that the constituency will not be sustained. Therefore, they may be inclined, depending on the particular Deputy's vote base, to focus most of their work on either Wicklow or Wexford.

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this Bill. It is important that Ireland exercise its democratic principles as regards constituency boundaries for the next general election. I was fearing the worst. I am from a community in a border area. My children frequently puck a ball over a fence and when I go over the fence, I not only leave my garden, I cross into another parish and another county. At one point I was also crossing into another European Parliament constituency. Many communities gather along border areas, especially where there are river boundaries. I live in the southern end of County Clare in the Ballyglass district electoral division, DED, which has a population of approximately 8,000. It has been kicked over and back like a football throughout the years into different constituencies. At one point, part of County Galway was in the Clare constituency. My home parish was in the Limerick City constituency for many years. To be honest, this prevented me from mounting a campaign for national politics for a long time. Many people wanted my corner of the county to go back into the Limerick City constituency. It might have changed the political landscape in Clare, but it is what it is and it is a good outcome.

Back in the spring when the public were invited to make submissions about this matter, I took the unusual step of leaving my office to do a Facebook live video from the carpark in front of Leinster House on Kildare Street. I urged people at home who have exercised their right many times and have protested about this in their hundreds over the years to get behind this. I told them they had an opportunity to use the public consultation to make their views known and they did so vociferously. I am glad that happened. It makes sense that County Clare in its entirety from the Burren down to Lough Derg comprises the constituency of Clare. No changes can be made on the Atlantic coastline unless shoals of herring are brought into the constituency, but changes are possible on the northern, eastern and southern boundaries. County Clare in its geographic form is the Clare constituency. That means we have the highest ratio of population to Deputy in the whole country, but so be it. It makes sense.

While I am speaking I will pay tribute to a Deputy from the county, Deputy Joe Carey, who has been unwell for a few months. We wish him the best as he recovers from illness. I also pay tribute to another great political character from Clare who confirmed yesterday evening that he will resign from Clare County Council, Councillor Bill Chambers from Cooraclare. He gave many years of incredible service to his community and the wider west Clare area. Cooraclare and west Clare will be at a loss when he retires from politics, but his family will gain back his time and that is wonderful. I pay tribute to all the efforts he made over the years, in particular in trying to advance a sewerage scheme for his village, which could now be close. I hope we will get good news on that front.

The process of reviewing the European Parliament constituencies is under way. The community I mentioned earlier, the Ballyglass DED, was at one time in the Limerick City Dáil constituency but in Connacht-Ulster, which stretches all the way up as far as Malin Head, for European elections. A little common sense has to prevail here. I have no intention of running in the European elections but, as someone who will cast a vote in them, I would like to think county and provincial boundaries will count for something when we are divvying up the country for European election reasons.

Deputy Howlin made some very valid points about autocratic rule and the alarming shift to the far right in this country and throughout the world. Certainly, throughout Europe we can see it happening and it is quite alarming. When I was in the University of Limerick many moons ago studying political science, we were told to buy a textbook, The Age of Extremes by Eric Hobsbawm, at the beginning of our second semester. It begins in 1914 and brings the reader all the way through 1945 and the end of the Second World War. European state after European state was collapsing, or rejuvenating itself at least, with far-right, autocratic leadership. It talks about the belle époque, a French term for the interwar years when there was peace and prosperity in Europe, which very quickly slid back into the dark chasms of the far right. History can, to some degree, repeat itself, and I would certainly be worried about the oxygen the far right in Europe is again getting, although I hope we will not see too much of that in Ireland.

Whatever divisions we might have in this House, the beauty of the Dáil and Seanad is that, through the PR-STV system, there is a lovely blend of elected representatives who do not always agree on things - far from it - but the will of the public is expressed here. The electorate gets to choose candidates and there is no longer a dominant one-party system in this country. Multiple parties are represented in this Chamber, some of them very small, including some, such as Aontú, with just one representative, while other parties in government and opposition have larger numbers. That is the beauty of the Irish electoral system. My party, many decades ago, might have preferred single-seat constituencies with first past the post, but it is good overall, for the democratic will, that voters can go down the ballot paper, like a menu of options, and pick their first, second and third preferences. It is a very fair outcome.

The Electoral Commission, in the new way it has been set up, is a huge advancement and improvement and we all recognise that. One issue in which we all have a great interest relates to the electoral register, who is on it and how that system has worked. It has always struck me down the years that when someone turns 18 years of age, the Department of Social Protection is able to write to the parents to tell them he or she is being taken off the children's allowance, but it is not able to put the young person on the electoral register. Now that it is linked to the PPS number system, is it possible that when a person turns 18, they could automatically be put onto the electoral register rather than have to register themselves? Perhaps the Minister of State will address that. Such a change would solve much of the problem because, clearly, that information is already there and should be used.

That the current system uses PPS numbers means a lot of duplications will be removed, given many people at different times move house, parish or county and find they are still on the register where they were ten years ago as well as where they are now. I know there is work to be done to get everybody's PPS number in place, but I think it will assist in that regard. Likewise, the issue whereby when someone passes away, they often remain on the register, sometimes for a long time, also needs to be dealt with.

Given the type of employment that exists nowadays, people often work away from home or abroad for periods. If they are not in the country on the day of the election, however, they have no vote. That issue needs to be looked at and I would encourage the Electoral Commission to do so. In other jurisdictions, there are proxy votes, whereby somebody can vote on your behalf providing they have the correct documentation and so on. The postal vote system in this State is quite complex and it can be difficult for people to navigate when they need to do so. Those are areas that should be looked at. We should do everything possible to ensure that the electoral register is accurate and that people who are on it will have every opportunity to exercise their right to vote. That is the broad principle that needs to be examined. I would recommend that something be done in that regard, especially in that area of postal and proxy votes.

I was elected in a constituency comprising Sligo, Leitrim, south Donegal and north Roscommon, which is now going to be changed to just Sligo, Leitrim and south Donegal, with the north Roscommon part going back into the Roscommon-Galway constituency. The entire county of Roscommon will now be in one constituency, whereas it used to be split between two constituencies. At one time, County Leitrim was almost split in half, with north Leitrim with Sligo and south Leitrim with Roscommon. There have been a whole lot of variations like that. I think the tolerance that is currently allowed is plus or minus 5%, but that could be examined to see whether it could be extended somewhat, which would help to keep county boundaries more intact. It is difficult. I think in particular of people who live in south Donegal but vote in the Sligo-Leitrim constituency, which includes Ballyshannon, Bundoran, Ballintra and Rossnowlagh. A small area - a little pocket in south Donegal - is in a different constituency from the rest of County Donegal. Local councillors are elected in that area, yet they are in a different Dáil constituency. That is a problem and we need to recognise it. I do not suggest we can get it perfect all the time. In urban areas, there will, of course, be divides, shifts and movements because of the density of the population. In rural counties and constituencies, however, if the tolerance were re-examined, that could open an opportunity to have something more uniform in place.

I agree with Deputy Howlin that six-seat constituencies are something we should definitely look at. Fewer three-seat constituencies would be much better, if just for democracy. It would also encourage us all to be more co-operative, given that we would be looking for second- and third-preference votes from our colleagues. In fairness, while people in this Chamber, in local authorities and everywhere else disagree on issues, we can find common ground. The more common ground we can find on issues, the more we can have a collaborative democracy that will work well and be more representative of the people, and six-seat constituencies would reflect that better. Most of our local authority electoral areas are six seats or more, and that works very well. It is something that should certainly be examined and looked at.

The issue of the media, the far right and electoral politics going down a certain route has been raised for some time. One reason we in Ireland have not seen as much of that extremism happening relates to our proportional representation electoral system, which is about more choice and the vote transferring along. An awful lot of people, as we see when there is an election and we look at the ballot papers coming out of the box, do not know how to vote. They vote number one and stop, or perhaps they vote one, two and three and stop. They do not understand that their vote can continue down through the 20 people on the ballot paper if they wish, and that it can contribute all the way along. In some elections that have been tight, we have seen a number ten or a number 12 being as good as a number one. It is important that there be a level of education among the public about how to vote properly.

We all talk about social media in a negative way and, certainly, there are an awful lot of problems with it, but it also has the opportunity to bring about a lot of positive things. We should use social media more to roll out education programmes. It is not just about adverts on RTÉ encouraging people to register to vote. Much of that can be done through social media outlets, such as X, or Twitter or whatever it is called at the moment, and Facebook. More and more of our young people use these outlets and they are the targets we need to reach. We need to use that more, as well as YouTube and all those platforms, to teach people how to vote and so on, and the Electoral Commission should look at that. The more that people understand how our electoral system works, the more they will engage in it and the more positive attitude they will have towards it and, therefore, the more engaged they will be in the political system as a whole.

The work done has been positive and is a very good start, but it has a distance to go. I encourage the Minister of State to take on board the points I raised about trying to bring it that distance.

The Constitution states that there must be one Member for every 20,000 to 30,000 people. Therefore, the purpose of the Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2023 is to provide for the number of Members of Dáil Éireann, the revision of constituencies and the number of Members to be elected to such constituencies in light of the results of census 2022, which showed a population increase of 8.1% on the 2016 population. While debating this legislation seems incongruent, we must scrutinise the reports to determine if they adhere to the terms of reference. I take on board that the long-established practice is for the Bill to be welcomed and accepted without amendment. I will support the Bill but it would be remiss of me not to speak on it as it affects my constituency, to which I am eternally grateful.

The Louth constituency is currently a five-seater, with a population of 167,607, an increase of 11.05% since 2016. The Louth constituency is currently made up of County Louth and two County Meath electoral districts south of Drogheda. The commission considered whether the current breach of the County Meath boundary could be reduced and whether the Louth constituency could be divided into two three-seat constituencies. This may have been a popular choice. However, according to the constitutional requirement in Article 16(2), the ratio of population to number of Members should, as far as practicable, be the same throughout the country. There is a very difficult balance for any commission to achieve in getting the ratio right, respecting existing county, local authority and community boundaries and getting the urban-rural balance correct. Prior to arriving at its recommendations, I trust that the commission gave consideration to the possibilities of adhering to county boundaries in the drawing up of new constituency boundaries.

The Constituency Review Report 2023 stated that there was a large number of submissions relating to the Louth constituency. The majority of submissions called for the breach of the County Meath boundary to be either continued or increased, with the transfer of more County Meath electoral districts to the Louth constituency or for a new Drogheda constituency to be created, which would take in further electoral districts from County Meath. I acknowledge that many of those submissions were part of a campaign promoting city status for Drogheda. While on one hand, the commission adopted a somewhat flexible approach by recommending a greater percentage variance in a limited number of cases, it remained stringent on the preservation of the integrity of county boundaries and the maintenance of continuity. Taking into account the terms of reference, it recommended a reduction of the boundary breach of County Meath by the Louth constituency from two electoral districts to a single electoral district. It was recommended that the Julianstown electoral district, with a population of 11,501, be transferred to the Meath East constituency while retaining the St. Mary’s part, electoral district, with a population of 16,403, in the Louth constituency. It was also recommended that Louth should remain a five-seat constituency. This makes sense with regard to population variance and ensures the town of Drogheda is contained within a single constituency. However, the Meath East constituency has been carved out on three occasions. People feel disenfranchised and put into areas within which they do not naturally fall.

I acknowledge that at a local level, people feel somewhat disenfranchised as a result of that being done. I recognise the trust that people in different areas put in us as politicians. The issue of where people vote is about identity. The electorate identifies with those who work on behalf of their constituents. People may have different Deputies and councillors as a result of newly-imposed county and council boundaries and therefore an educational and inclusion campaign must be carried out to ease the transition. County councillors also have concerns regarding council boundaries because they need to know how their bases will be affected. Obviously, I would like to be one of the Deputies to look after my constituency until the next election. This boundary commission does not change our current representation or our current representative function.

I thank everyone in my constituency who voted for me. I was fortunate enough to be elected in the last three general elections. I have nothing but admiration for anybody who puts their hand up to represent their constituencies and for TDs and councillors. Many people have come into my constituency office over the past number of years and told me it was the first time they ever looked for any kind of representation. They could be looking for representation concerning their children's education, health, jobs, disability grants or planning permission. They come to you looking for the right directions. It is a nervous time for people when they come to see you. It is nice to have the right people there to represent them.

I will support this Bill. I hope the people who have been transferred to a constituency other than Louth will be looked after the same way we looked after them in Louth.

I hope I will not need it. I will try not to bore the House. Ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghabháil leis na Teachtaí go léir. The was a valuable debate yesterday and today. Before I conclude, I will take some time to respond to some of the issues raised by Deputies. More immediately, I will respond to comments made today, starting with Deputy Howlin, a politician for whom I have huge respect. The Dáil will be the poorer for his absence after the next election. He raised the issue of the division of Wexford. An Coimisiún Toghcháin was constrained somewhat by the three-, four- and five-seat constituencies. It is worth noting that while the number of three-seater constituencies would be 13 instead of nine as a result of this review, four-seaters would go from 15 instead of 17 and five-seaters 15 instead of 13. The coimisiún has successfully managed to remove seven of the existing breaches of county boundaries, has reduced two existing breaches and has three new breaches. It has done a good job given the constraints placed on it. In my constituency, a chunk of north-west Kilkenny has gone into Tipperary. For a hurling county like ours it is very difficult; I am sure it is difficult for the people of Urlingford and Freshford to deal with. The commission managed to strike a good balance, which all Deputies have acknowledged, notwithstanding the wider debate around six-seater constituencies.

As a member of a smaller party and based on the contributions by several Deputies, it is around proportionality, broader representation more reflective of our proportional representation system and the opportunity to over time elect a Chamber that is more reflective of Irish society. I am talking about diversity and more women in the Chamber. I have a copy of the draft research programme which I urge all Deputies to have a look at. The commission's intention is to consider as part of its research programme the examination of the potential for six-seater constituencies. It will not impact the next general election but thereafter it provides an opportunity for further engagement on the potential for six-seater constituencies. I would warmly welcome it.

Deputy Crowe raised the issue of the Ballyglass district electoral division and the issue of his constituency. I join him in wishing all the best to Deputy Joe Carey and Councillor Bill Chambers, who will not stand in the next local election. Deputy Martin Kenny raised the issue of the electoral register. In strand E of the draft research programme published by the commission, blue sky curiosity-driven research, there is huge potential in limitless thematic research for the commission. It shows the value of the electoral commission in that sense. It provides an opportunity to look at other jurisdictions and consider other ways of improving and strengthening our democracy, which is to be welcomed. I take on board the points made about education and awareness, which are a strong function of An Coimisiún Toghcháin, and the points raised by Deputy Fitzpatrick.

Quite a number of Deputies raised points in respect of election posters. I stand here proudly as a Member of Dáil Éireann having not used a single poster in the 2020 general election or the 2019 local elections. I would not say that is for everybody and my campaign manager sputtered out a cup of tea when he heard me announce it on local radio in 2019, but there is no doubt that that research is important. We need to give certainty to candidates, in particular ahead of the local elections. I take on board the points Deputies have made that posters are an integral part of our electoral system. They mean people get an opportunity to know there is an electoral event on. My view is that some form of restrictions, such as designated sites, might be a way forward. We have allowed the commission to carry out that research. For first-time candidates, posters are a vital part of campaigning tools.

Deputy O'Callaghan spoke in particular about the powers of the Standards in Public Office Commission, SIPO. The commission has included a review of the Electoral Act 1997 in its draft research programme, which is important. In my view, the review is an ideal opportunity to consider the powers and functions of SIPO under the Act.

There have been discussions on a cap on the number of Deputies, whether that be at the upper or lower end of the additional number of Dáil seats after the next general election. The commission can look into such matters. Points were raised yesterday about stable constituency boundaries and the size of the Parliament being fixed over time in order to provide certainty. These are important points. I agree with the contention that three seat constituencies are too small and not fully representative. The commission will carry out a review following the next general election and look at how we can improve things. That research element will examine how to improve and strengthen the system.

Yesterday, a number of Deputies raised the issue of local democracy, our local democratic structures and the weakening and undermining of local democracy and government, and said that has a knock-on effect on Dáil elections. It is an important point and it is important that future research programmes examine how we can strengthen our local democratic structures. Deputies referred to the undermining of councillors' powers. Councillors still have quite considerable powers, functions and roles, and it is important to exercise them. Accountability and transparency in local government is vitally important, in particular in light of the EPA report produced yesterday which shed a very negative light on some local authorities in terms of their environmental performance and duties around environmental regulation, compliance and inspection. It makes for very poor reading.

A number of Deputies had very positive responses to the reforms of the electoral register and the preregistration of 16- and 17-year-olds. That is important. This morning, I met Women for Election to discuss issues around the greater participation of women and minorities in politics. That is a vital strand in establishing the commission and the role it has to play in ensuring that we can get a broader representation of women and minorities in our Dáil, Seanad and council chambers. That is something all of us in the House would agree on.

I hope we all get another opportunity to wish Senator David Norris all the very best as he bows out of politics in January.

That is a good synopsis of the main points raised. There seem to be a lot of commonality on the points raised by Deputies. They related predominantly to specific issues in their constituencies. I am taking on board all of the points raised.

I thank Deputies who made contributions on Second Stage. Based on the contributions I have heard, I think there is a general appreciation of the need to respect the independence of the newly established Electoral Commission, An Coimisiún Toghcháin, and to accept the recommendations of the commission report without change. I am proud to be the Minister of State responsible for bringing forward the legislation to set up the Electoral Commission for Ireland through the Houses of the Oireachtas.

This Bill, when enacted, will bring Dáil constituencies into line with population change as ascertained in census 2022 and ensure that the requirements as set out in Article 16.2 of the Constitution have been met by the Oireachtas in full. As Deputies are aware and as the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, mentioned in his contribution, the constitutional requirement is for the total number of Members of Dáil Eireann to be no less than one Member for each 30,000 of the population, and no more than one Member for each 20,000 of the population. The Constitution also requires that there is the same ratio of representation in constituencies throughout the country insofar as this is practical.

Members may be aware that An Coimisiún Toghcháin published its draft research programme last week. In it, the commission sets out its intention to carry out research into the issue of representation and the manner in which the overall number of Deputies is determined in the context of a rising population and the current constitutional and legal provisions in this area. I look forward to the outcome of this work.

While some could argue that it might have been possible for the commission to suggest alternative solutions to those recommended in its report, nevertheless the process is independent in its application, takes cognisance of the views of interested parties via a consultative process and, ultimately, is designed to ensure that Dáil constituencies fully comply with the requirements of the Constitution.

I refer to the introduction of the report by Ms Justice Marie Baker, the chairperson of the commission. The commission had regard to present and not future factors. Some Deputies said yesterday that we should future proof the recommendations. That is why we came down on the side of the recommendation of having 174 Deputies. It was prudent that the commission took that approach.

I appreciate that some of the commission's recommendations may give rise to concerns for a number of Deputies who may be directly affected by the changes proposed. I appreciate the points raised by Deputy Fitzpatrick. However, there will always be swings and roundabouts following a constituency revision. All we can do is to ensure that the best arrangements, insofar as is practicable, will have regard to the legal imperatives of the Constitution and the statutory requirements prescribed in our Electoral Acts.

I thank the chair and the members of An Coimisiún Toghcháin for completing what was, I am sure, a difficult first task for them. It was the first task we assigned to them, and they took to that task with great determination and have done an excellent job. I again urge all Deputies to look at the draft research programme and for the public to engage with it. It provides hugely exciting opportunities for our democracy in this country in terms of participation and engagement. I am proud that we have a robust democracy in this country. The commission will add to the robustness of that and continue to strengthen it into the future.

I look forward to further consideration on Committee Stage of the specific provisions of the Bill.