Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 8 Nov 2023

Across the State, tens of thousands of homeowners and tenants are living in homes built during the Celtic tiger era that have serious building defects. These homes typically have no fire stopping measures, causing significant fire safety concerns. At the most extreme, they have no adequate fire escapes. Many properties have water ingress, that is, moisture seeping into the structure of the building, slowly eroding the fabric of the home over time. People have to deal with damp and mould and, in the long term, their homes will crumble apart. Other homes have issues with car parks, cladding, communal doors and lifts.

These homeowners bought their homes in good faith. They paid their hard cash for their homes. Tenants in both social and private rental accommodation pay their rent on time and yet find themselves living in unsafe and insecure defective homes. They did nothing wrong. Those responsible in the first instance are the builders and developers who ignored basic fire safety and building standards but the State also has a responsibility because light-touch regulation and a lack of independent local authority inspection allowed this to happen. Yet, to date, homeowners have been left to foot the bill for dodgy building and weak regulation.

When they retired, Gary and Lorraine Carew bought their dream home in Brú na Sionna in Ennis. They looked forward to their life free from debt after decades of hard work. However, after they moved in, defects were discovered and they now face bills running into tens of thousands of euro in their retirement. In my own constituency, homeowners of hundreds of apartments in the Ivy Exchange development on Parnell Street face bills of anything up to €80,000 to deal with defects for which they bear no responsibility. Sam and Odette Doran live in an apartment in Parkwest, which they bought during the Celtic tiger period. The hard-working couple were sold the dream of secure home ownership in one of our city's new suburbs. Today, they face a bill of up to €40,000 to fix defects they did not cause. Like their neighbours and like so many other families, they simply do not have that kind of money. To add insult to injury, on the discovery of these defects in Parkwest, the insurance company for the apartments pushed up the premiums year on year, from €30,000 to a staggering €190,000 per year, with homeowners on the hook for that bill. This insurance company has now threatened to walk away completely, which is a really frightening prospect.

Sam and Odette, Lorraine and Gary and all of the others are part of the Not Our Fault 100% Redress campaign. Along with the Construction Defects Alliance, the group has been campaigning for redress for years and is protesting outside the Dáil today. Caithfidh an Rialtas gealltanas a sholáthar dóibh siúd a bhfuil cónaí orthu i dtithe ina bhfuil lochtanna ó thréimhse an tíogair Cheiltigh. Níor cheart go mbeadh ar na daoine seo billí na bhforbróirí agus an drochrialaithe a íoc. Last year, the Government finally agreed to put in place a defects redress scheme. On 18 January of this year, the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, met with the families and promised them two things: emergency funding for essential fire safety and other works to be made available this year and the publication of legislation to underpin the redress scheme before the end of this year. There are now five weeks left in the Dáil calendar and there has been no emergency funding and no legislation has been published. When will that funding be available? When will we see the legislation? When will the full redress scheme be opened for applications?

I thank the Deputy for raising this really important issue, which affects tens of thousands of people around the country, including people in the Deputy's constituency and my own. As I have disclosed previously, I am personally affected, as are other members of the Cabinet. We appreciate that Government intervention is required. In some cases, people are able to pay the levy and in other cases they are not. Very often, in multi-unit developments, work is not done because some people are unable to pay, which creates huge difficulties for people. Of course, the cost of this work is increasing all of the time. There are also insurance implications, as the Deputy mentioned in her contribution. The Government has made a commitment, which we will stand over, to help in the very short term with emergency works required for fire safety and in the near term to help people with the cost of these repairs. There will be retrospection because we do not want to discourage people from getting the work done and making the payments where they can.

The Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, has been working to progress the various programmes of work required to put in place this scheme on a statutory footing. This includes the remediation of fire safety, structural safety and water ingress defects in purpose-built apartment buildings, including duplexes, constructed between 1991 and 2013. It was always anticipated that the scheme would take time to develop and we have always sought to convey that message. It is expected that the draft legislation will be published in early 2024. Subject to the legislative process, the scheme will be in place shortly thereafter. While the Minister is working on the legislation as a matter of priority, sufficient time is required to draft the legislation to ensure the scheme is fit for purpose, provides value for taxpayers and contains appropriate oversight and governance measures. We are committed to helping affected homeowners to get their homes and lives back together. This will require a robust scheme and it will take a period of time to bring forward the legislation required to underpin it.

The scale of defects in apartments and duplexes is significant. It is estimated that, of those apartments, duplexes and associated common areas constructed between 1991 and 2013, the number that may be affected by one or more fire safety, structural safety or water ingress defects is likely to range between 50% and 80%. That equates to between 60,000 and 100,000 apartments and duplexes. It is estimated that the average cost will be approximately €25,000 per unit, which means a potential cost to the Exchequer of €1.5 billion to €2.5 billion.

This is a significant piece of work that we have to do. It is much greater than would have been the case with pyrite, for example. We are working on it as a matter of priority.

We can agree that the scale of this is huge. I hope we can also agree that, along with builders and developers, the State bears considerable responsibility for this fiasco. Let us remember the details. We talk about defects. We have families living in homes that are not safe, that do not have adequate fire safety protection and, in the worst-case scenarios, have inadequate fire escapes. That is terrifying. There can be no excuse for delays to the emergency funding. The Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, would want to get the finger out. He met these families in January and we are in November. It is not acceptable to leave people in this scenario on the hook for huge and crippling sums of money, with the real anxiety and fear that brings for families. I would like a specific date from the Taoiseach for the emergency funding. Likewise with the legislation, this has drifted and drifted. We know the liability here is very large but we also know where the culpability lies. I hope we can all agree as a Dáil that hardworking families, homeowners and renters cannot be left in this desperate situation any longer.

We can all agree that there are a number of entities that bear responsibility for this - builders in some cases and other professionals involved in the construction business. The State also has a degree of responsibility, particularly pre-2014, when building regulations were not what they are now and were not enforced in the way they are now. Ultimately, while the State will pick up the bill for almost all of this work, the cost inevitably falls back on the taxpayer and the people. That is what happens in these scenarios and that is unfortunately where we are.

On fire safety, the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, is working with the Housing Agency on advice and guidance that owners and management companies can take when carrying out such fire safety works. This includes funding mechanisms for interim fire safety measures in extreme cases. The Minister will publish further details of this in the coming weeks.

Cúram dár dtuismitheoirí agus dár sean-thuismitheoirí; an bhfuil aon rud níos tábhachtaí? Irish society knows well the value of caring for the older people in our society, the value of community and the right of everyone to live with dignity but those values are simply not reflected in the Government’s policies and actions on home care. That was evident from this morning's debate on the Labour Party motion on supports in the home-care sector. We know there are approximately 6,000 people across the country who are stuck on a waiting list for home support, having been assessed. That is no way to reward older people who have contributed to Irish society and our economy over their whole lives. They deserve care and support to live a happy and fulfilled life in their own homes. The State is supposed to care for its citizens but it is failing those who are denied access to care in their own homes - many of us know people who are in that position - and those who have been trapped in acute hospitals for over a year at a time due to delayed discharges, as revealed by Deputy Kelly just now.

This is due to the avoidable recruitment and retention crisis in the home-care sector. We would have expected to see drastic and radical action from the Government in budget 2024 to tackle this crisis, particularly with an ageing population and overcrowded hospitals, but that is not the path the Government chose with its health budget. Instead, it has frozen recruitment, which is extraordinary. Yet, some of the most important work in the country is provided by the unsung heroes, as Deputy Duncan Smith said, namely, those who work in the home-care sector providing care in people's homes. These workers are mostly women and are among the most undervalued professionals in our society. They are particularly undervalued when it comes to pay and conditions.

This year, under pressure, the hourly pay for healthcare support assistants in the private sector was increased. That is welcome but that move was funded by quietly cutting home support hours by 1.9 million hours this year. We might call that "robbing Peter to pay Paul" or, more appropriately, "robbing Patricia to pay Paula" because these workers are mostly women. There is no plan to ensure a living wage for these workers into the future and no plan to ensure the system will work for those who need care. It is simply not working. When an older person cannot be discharged from hospital or cannot access care at home, their health outcomes are affected. It is fundamentally unfair to older people and their friends and families. So often, I hear from people – again, mostly women – who are hit with the double whammy of caring for their children and their ageing parents, often while holding down a full-time job. These are women who are struggling and panicking and do not know how to keep the plates spinning. As long as the State services are not there, they will have no option but to keep them spinning. That is why the Labour Party brought a motion this morning calling on the Government to make real reforms to the home-care service system and ensure we will be able to cater for an ageing population and a workforce struggling with the ever-increasing cost of living. Instead of pressing the Government's whitewashing amendment to a vote this evening, will the Taoiseach accept the motion and work with us and others across the House to pay Ireland’s heroic home-care workers their worth, reverse the ridiculous embargo on recruitment and ensure that Ireland becomes a place where care is genuinely valued and older persons can receive the care they so desperately need in their homes?

I thank Deputy Bacik for raising this important issue. We can all agree, on all sides of the House, how valuable home care is. Most important, it provides older people and younger people who need care with the dignity they deserve in life. Crucially, it enables people to get out of hospital quicker, which frees up beds for patients who need them and enables people to avoid going into nursing homes. The length of time people spend in nursing homes has gone down considerably in recent years precisely because home support has improved and people can stay at home for longer.

The overall budget for home support this year is €723 million. That is an increase of €228 million since this Government came to office, so nearly a 40% increase in funding for home care just under this Government. Far from being cut, the number of hours we will fund next year is 22 million, which is up from 21.5 million this year. The amount that is ring-fenced for dementia will increase from 5% in 2021 to 18% in 2024.

A new and improved HSE support tender for private and voluntary providers has been in place since August and is bringing about significant reform in the sector. An increased hourly rate is in place to ensure that home support workers are paid appropriately and to help deal with some of the issues affecting the waiting lists and recruitment and retention. This includes a new payment rate for travel time, requiring private and voluntary providers to pay the national living wage, at a minimum, and also reforming the legacy rate. On the number of people waiting on home care, the figure was 9,000 in 2020 when the Government came to office. At the moment, it is below 6,000.

The Taoiseach's response did not address the crucial issues. I will spell them out. The crucial issues, which are evidenced in the Government's and the HSE's figures, include, first, the lack of healthcare workers. There are simply not enough healthcare workers to meet the need. The second crucial issue is the number of people who are awaiting care, having been assessed for home-care supports, and simply cannot access it because of the lack of workers. The third is poor pay and conditions across the healthcare sector. Notwithstanding the new tender, the Ministers of State at the Department of Health, Deputies Butler and Rabbitte, in response to our motion, admitted what we all know to be the case, namely, that we cannot be sure that the new rate of €13.10 per hour, basic though it is, is being passed on in the private sector. The truth is we have seen a creeping privatisation of home-care services. That is having a knock-on effect on recruitment and retention. It means we simply do not have enough home-care workers to meet the crucial demand for older persons, persons who are awaiting discharge from hospital and persons who desperately need care in their homes to be able to live with dignity into older age in a way we would all wish to do. The Taoiseach has not addressed those crucial issues.

We have never had more people working in our health service or public service than we have today. We have full employment in Ireland. That is a great thing but there are downsides to it, one of which is the fact that recruitment and retention are a challenge everywhere. That includes the public and private sectors, urban and rural areas, big and small companies-----

-----and well-paid and poorly paid jobs. It is an across-the-board issue when there is full employment and that is a challenge we face. It is a challenge I would rather face than unemployment, which affected this country for a long time.

The new tender rate, which was backdated to July, is a core rate of €31 per hour for providers, which works out at an average rate of €34 per hour taking into account weekend pay, evening pay and premiums and travel rates. The national living wage is set at €13.10 and there is also travel time between appointments. There is an inbuilt review process on the national living wage after 12 months and I am advised that there is no evidence that this is not being passed on or being paid by providers.

Twelve years ago I visited the Jabalia refugee camp in Gaza. I was struck by how packed it was with more than 100,000 people living in closely cramped quarters in less than 1.4 sq. km. Many streets are so small that you cannot even fit a coffin down them. Today, much of Jabalia, a refugee camp, lies in ruins because Israel targeted it for bombardment.

I visited a hospital in Gaza. Even then, back in 2011, they were running out of surgical gloves and basic medicines because of Israel's blockade. Today, they are being forced to operate on hospital floors without anaesthetic and are on the verge of running out of fuel. That will mean the electricity going off and death for people in ICU and for babies in incubators.

I met a 12-year old girl who had not seen her father since she was four months old. He was one of about 6,000 political prisoners being held by Israel, many without charge or trial and hundreds of them children. There are now thousands and thousands of children in Gaza who will never see their parents again. More than 4,000 children have been killed. Israel is committing war crimes, with the support of the US Government and much of the EU. They are bombing hospitals and ambulances. They are bombing residential areas with the biggest bombs designed to inflict maximum damage. They are bombing convoys of refugees they ordered to flee south for safety. They are laying siege to 2.3 million people, trying to starve them out by blockading food and water. They are bombing fishing boats to stop people from getting around the siege and feeding themselves. They are committing the crime of genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes - Articles 6, 7 and 8 of the Rome Statute. They are committing these crimes openly and brazenly, repeatedly declaring their intention to do so in the world's media.

Yesterday the Taoiseach said "it may well be the case that war crimes have been committed. That is where the International Criminal Court, ICC, comes in but there has to be a proper investigation." Will the Irish Government make a referral to the International Criminal Court under Article 14 of the Rome Statute so there can be such an investigation?

Israel is facing growing isolation internationally. Bolivia has cut all diplomatic ties with Israel. Chile and Colombia have recalled their ambassadors. They were joined yesterday by South Africa and Chad. If Ireland took that step as a European country, if we expelled the Israeli ambassador, it would have an impact globally. It would send a clear signal that when Ursula von der Leyen gave the green light to Israel's genocidal assault on Gaza, she was not speaking for all Europeans. It would further isolate and put pressure on Israel to stop.

The Government's position on this has been very clear. There should be a humanitarian ceasefire immediately so that aid can go into Gaza and EU citizens and other citizens can leave. Hamas should free all of the hostages it is holding without any conditions and should lay down its arms because it is a terrorist organisation. We need a new peace initiative in the Middle East, desperately so.

The situation in Gaza is critical. The high number of civilian casualties is deeply shocking, in particular the number of children, journalists and also UN and other aid workers who have been killed. The protection of civilians and de-escalation is a priority. A humanitarian ceasefire is required immediately and the level of aid passing into Gaza needs to be accelerated as a matter of urgency. We continue to engage with EU and regional partners to increase the aid allowed into Gaza and the Government is in regular contact with regional foreign ministers and leaders. The Tánaiste has announced €13 million in humanitarian assistance to the Palestinian people with €10 million for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, UNRWA, and €3 million for the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, UNOCHA.

Ireland condemns outright the attack by Hamas and affirms Israel's right to defend itself, but this must be in line with international humanitarian law and in a proportionate manner, and this has not been the case. A distinction has to be made between Hamas and civilians in Gaza. Targeting civilian infrastructure is not acceptable and collective punishment is a breach of international humanitarian law in our view. De-escalation and the protection of civilians must be our first priority.

In relation to the role of the International Criminal Court, attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure are a breach of international humanitarian law. All potential violations of international humanitarian law should be investigated. The Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, Karim Khan, confirmed the court has jurisdiction over the situation in the occupied territory and by Palestinian nationals outside it, so we do not need to make a referral for an investigation to take place.

In regard to the issue of the ambassador raised by Deputy Paul Murphy, I do not believe it would be the right thing to expel the ambassador from Israel for exactly the same reasons that we did not expel the Russian ambassador in relation to Ukraine. We need to be able to engage at some level. There are around 40 Irish citizens being held in Gaza and we want them to be able to leave.

There is also a young Irish-Israeli girl who may well be being held in Gaza as a hostage of Hamas as well. Let us not be just one-sided about this. Our priority, no matter who is holding them, is for Irish citizens to be able to get out and get to safety. That means we need to be able to engage with the Israeli Government and the Israeli ambassador. At some point we also want to be able to talk about peace, reconciliation and reconstruction. That may seem ridiculous now, but we have to keep that hope alive. While expelling the ambassador might make us feel better for a day or two, and it might be a story in the international news for a day or two, it would not actually have an impact on Israel's policy, not for a second. The Deputy is a bit naive if he actually thinks that.

The Taoiseach has acknowledged that there needs to be an investigation by the International Criminal Court. It is true that the Prosecutor has said that the ICC has authority, but what that is referring to is the fact that Israel is not a signatory to the Rome Statute and therefore it is saying it is not applicable to it. The Prosecutor is saying "No. Things that are committed in Gaza can be covered" but there does need to be a referral in order for a prosecution and investigation to take place. The Taoiseach has the power to make that happen. Will the Government make a referral under Article 14 so that there is an investigation by the International Criminal Court?

The Taoiseach says we cannot expel the Israeli ambassador because we need to have diplomatic relations to try and get the Irish citizens out. But we have those relations right now. We have the Israeli ambassador on the Irish media every day telling lies, covering up for war crimes, and that is not happening. Is it not true that Irish citizens, together with Brazilian citizens, are effectively being held hostage by the Israeli regime in Gaza? While the citizens of other countries have been allowed to leave, for example, the US, Germany and Britain, Irish and Brazilians have not been allowed to leave by Israel.

-----and everyone else is for the bombing and the assault to stop. The more pressure on Israel, and the more isolation of Israel, the more pressure that will be put on Israel to do precisely that. The best thing we can do, precisely, is to expel the ambassador and to send a signal to them and to the whole world.

Our advice and understanding is that we do not need to make a referral for an investigation to take place. The Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court has said that he believes jurisdiction applies to the occupied territories but I will seek further information and advice on that.

There are roughly 8,000 EU and foreign nationals in Gaza.

Only a handful have been allowed to leave so far. Only about 20% of EU citizens have been allowed to leave so far and we have been given no indication that Ireland is somehow being penalised for the stance we are taking in our call for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire. We will not change our position on that, no matter what.

I was struck by the comments of the new CEO of Tourism Ireland reported in this morning's edition of The Irish Times. "We have a calculation around revenue per carbon footprint," she said. She continued: "If we're going to bring someone from the other side of the world, we're going to make sure we target [those who are] valued-added, and [not those] coming in and out, leaving a carbon footprint, but without bringing value." She also discussed capacity constraints at Dublin Airport and in the accommodation sector, and said there was "still room for growth" but that it "needs to be responsible growth".

I have a number of questions around that. On the one hand it seems sort of ideologically neutral but sometimes the application of something that appears ideologically neutral has a profoundly biased effect. Increasingly, and for a long period of time, we have had a concentration of all tourists coming into Dublin and being bused for a day to the Cliffs of Moher and back again. Is there any examination of how sustainable that is? Is there any examination of whether there is a very wealthy or not-so-wealthy cohort of people who wish to see, travel to and stay in the west of Ireland, so they are not coming into an overcrowded airport through an overcrowded city to be driven across the country and back again? They might, perhaps, buy a cup of coffee or perhaps not. Perhaps they will go to the toilet and if they do, that is as much as they do.

Is there a tourism strategy that takes account of that? If not, any talk about sustainability and sustainable tourism is nonsense. All it does is say that because there is a shortage of beds in certain parts of the country, we need to just bring in very wealthy tourists. Is there any consideration of the effect that the Government's policy on housing refugees, people seeking asylum and people who are beneficiaries of temporary protection is having on our tourism sector? I understand that, as a stopgap measure, one takes whatever is available. However, we all accept - the Taoiseach, his Government and Ministers included - that this is no longer a short-term issue but a longer term issue. Between 40% and 50% of the hotel beds in Clare are filled with such people. I am not saying they do not need a bed - they clearly do - but, arguably, if they are to integrate into our economy, they need a bed where they can get a job. There are not a load of jobs in Lisdoonvarna, unfortunately. There are lots of them in Dublin. What is the Government's long-term plan around tourism and the sustainability of the tourism sector?

I have always been a huge supporter of the tourism sector and industry. I got to work very closely with it for three years as Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport. I have continued to engage with it and I really find people who work in the tourism sector to be among the most hospitable and welcoming people, and among the best businesspeople we have in the country. I will never forget that in the 2011-12 period after the financial crash, three sectors lifted us out of that recession, namely, the multinationals, the agricultural and food sector and also tourism. We owe them a debt of gratitude for that. Tourism has the benefit of being able to create jobs all over the country, in the cities and also in rural areas.

We are experiencing a climate crisis, though. I think that is obvious to everyone in the country and the House and we have to take account of the impact that international and internal travel has on the climate. It has always been the case that we have taken into account not just the raw numbers of people visiting the country but also the spend. It would not be a secret to anyone in this House or in the tourism industry that, for example, somebody coming from the US who spends a week in Ireland and travels around the country will be of more economic value than somebody who comes and makes a short weekend visit. We have always taken into account both the numbers visiting and also the revenue brought in but people are welcome no matter where they are coming from or how long they stay.

On sustainability, we believe busing will become sustainable most quickly. Electric and hydrogen buses already exist. They are already being used and manufactured on the island. I anticipate that in the next ten years, we will see bus transfer becoming very environmentally sustainable. When it comes to aviation, the focus has to be on sustainable aviation fuels. It is early days yet. We want Ireland to be a leader on that. Ireland will always need aviation. It is an island, after all. The focus that we want is a move to sustainable and synthetic aviation fuels so that we can make that sustainable into the future.

With regard to tourism policy, the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media, Deputy Catherine Martin, is going to publish a new national tourism policy. That will be done in early 2024. It will focus on the environment and also economic sustainability for the sector.

I find the Taoiseach's answer somewhat surprising. On the one hand, he says we need to curb international travel and take account of sustainability while, on the other, he wants to lift capacity limits at Dublin Airport. Nowhere has he discussed exploiting capacity at other airports so that people are flown directly into a region that they might stay in, when, one hopes, there is a greater balance in how people are accommodated. These people need accommodation but the State has to match that with what it provides. Instead, the Taoiseach says that this practice is going to be sustainable. We are going to have electric buses bringing them from Dublin Airport down to the west so that they can see Kylemore Abbey, the Cliffs of Moher or whatever it is and back again. Suddenly, that is sustainability. I do not wish to mischaracterise what the Taoiseach has said but that is how I have interpreted it. He might explain, if that is not what he said, what he means by sustainable tourism and balanced regional tourism in this State going forward.

I am happy to clarify that I have not called for a curb on international travel; far from it. That is not my position whatsoever. I said that we have to take account of it and that some journeys are more valuable to the State than others. I have given the Deputy an example of exactly that. I also said we need to make sure we move towards sustainable aviation fuels. That is the future. The future, for me, is not stopping flying. I do not want to stop flying either, by the way. The future is a move towards sustainable and synthetic aviation fuels, in my view. We do need to take account of it and we also need to consider offsetting. As the Deputy knows, Government Departments do that as a matter of course.

The Government also has a policy of favouring the regional airports such as Cork, Shannon and Ireland West airports and others. When it comes to Dublin, as the Deputy knows, we take money off Dublin Airport in the form of dividends and other charges. When it comes to the other airports, we provide funding. We provided considerable funding for Cork Airport recently and also for Ireland West Airport and Shannon Airport. It is good that those airports are seeing real passenger growth now. I would like to see a lot more of it. We also need to be honest with people. Airlines decide where they fly. Airlines will make decisions, more often than not, as to whether they fly from Birmingham or Dublin rather than Shannon or Cork, and that is the reality. We need to be honest with people in that regard.