Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 20 Jun 2024

I rise to discuss the Government's failure regarding the regeneration of social housing communities. This is a major, ongoing issue. It does not just concern the current Government because it is a wider issue. It is highlighted by several key issues and problems that have manifested themselves in my constituency. In recent days, residents in Dolphin House have begun a process of complaint with the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission, stating their human rights are being denied. Dolphin House was built in the 1950s and originally contained about 400 homes. There has been a process of regeneration. Phase 1 has been completed and is incredibly successful, but the reality is that phases 2 and 3 have been hit with ongoing severe delays. The regeneration has completely stalled. In the words of the residents, it is crumbling under the weight of neglect. There are significant numbers of boarded-up homes affecting what is normally a vibrant community and the mental health of the residents. The people are frustrated that the community is collapsing around them because of the failure to drive the regeneration.

This reflects the circumstances in the Oliver Bond housing complex, which is also suffering from failed, stalled regeneration. There are issues owing to damp, mould, the lack of facilities, crime, open drug dealing and antisocial behaviour. Earlier this year, we saw reports that the health impacts are so severe in Oliver Bond flats that the residents present with double the amount of respiratory illness evident in the rest of Dublin. St. Michael's Estate, Inchicore, was demolished about 21 years ago with the promise of regeneration – regeneration we have yet to see. Therefore, there is a much wider, deeper problem.

The problem is really deep because we are throwing communities to the wolves. We are not providing for the regeneration they need to have modern housing. We are condemning them to live in unfit housing. We are undermining their communities when we start and stop regeneration, as has happened at Dolphin House. We are contributing to the housing crisis by failing to provide housing and to a decline in mental health. Equally, we are contributing just as much to poverty, social exclusion and a lack of social cohesion. We have seen that there are groups willing to exploit that to attack and undermine our democracy as a whole. Failed regeneration is a huge problem. It is not just a problem for our local authorities because there is a Department responsible for these. That Department, which should be driving the regeneration, is in reality probably getting in the way of it, requiring overly burdensome paperwork and failing to provide the supports and funding needed while wrapping every project up in red tape. I ask the Minister of State, what the hell are we going to do to get regeneration moving for the three estates I have mentioned, as well as the many others around the country that need it, too?

I thank Deputy Costello for raising this issue, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for housing. I am glad to have the opportunity to discuss Dublin City Council's redevelopment plans for social housing complexes.

The Department of housing is committed to ensuring that tenants in social housing are provided with adequate housing that meets the standards most recently laid down in the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 2019. The Department is actively engaging with the local authority sector to promote the preventative maintenance of local authority housing stock and provides significant funding for stock improvement works. While funding is available from the Department for the regeneration of inner-city flat complexes; it is a matter for the local authorities to submit for funding approval to the Department.

Through the Department's estate regeneration programme, Dublin City Council is working on the regeneration of Dolphin House. One hundred social housing units were completed in 2019 and a further 28 units are in preparation. The council advises that later phases will see the completion of the regeneration of the existing estate and deliver a total of over 750 homes, alongside the provision of community amenities, including a community centre and park. The council advises that work is currently under way in procuring the environmental impact assessment report and a Part 10 planning lodgement to meet statutory planning requirements for these later phases. In the meantime, the council advises that it is making a number of interventions to improve the conditions of the existing flats.

The Department of housing fully supports the regeneration programme for the Oliver Bond House complex and has awarded funding approval to Dublin City Council for key projects, commencing with the redevelopment of the flats in blocks L, M and N. Dublin City Council's city architects division will lead a consultant design team on developing the design ahead of submitting a Part 8 planning application. A feasibility study is being undertaken by the council to examine the options available for the community centre linked to the regeneration of Oliver Bond House. Work continues within the council to bring the project to its next stage. I am advised by the Minister that, in parallel with upgrading measures, precinct improvement works have been carried out around the estate to enhance the outdoor community spaces. In the interim, the council advises that all of the existing units have been surveyed for mechanical ventilation and to date, it has installed vents in 309 units. Furthermore, 400 windows in 55 residential units have been replaced.

Following the successful completion of two pilot projects, the council has advised that the full rolling out of window upgrading is expected to be finalised by the end of this year. The council is progressing the ongoing programme of warm-boarding units that back onto the stairwells.

The Emmet Road mixed-tenure development will transform the St. Michael's Estate site into a vibrant, residential-led neighbourhood. Planning permission was granted by An Bord Pleanála in July 2023 for 578 units, and the project will see the delivery of 137 social and 441 cost-rental homes. The mixed-use development includes a library, crèche, supermarket, retail units, public realm and landscape works, and a series of new public open spaces, all of which aim to create a sense of community within a sustainable and thriving new quarter of Dublin city. Under current project plans, the tender process and enabling works on the site will begin in quarter 4 this year, with construction beginning in 2025 and homes delivered on a phased basis from 2027 to 2028.

The council has advised the Department that it does not have any immediate plans for the redevelopment of the Summer Street flats.

While I thank the Minister of State for his reply, I believe some of the facts he has offered highlight the very problem I am talking about. With respect to Dolphin House, 100 social units have been completed and a further 28 are in preparation, but that amounts to 128 out of 750, as the Minister of State mentioned. Community amenities, including a community centre and community park, are also to be provided.

It is five years since phase 1 was developed. Phases 2 and 3 seem to be in the distant future, without any sign of meaningful completion. Again, I point to the example of St. Michael's House. It was demolished 21 years ago but we still have to see the regeneration. Therefore, there is a deeper problem. The tone of the Minister of State's response is such that it places the responsibility back with Dublin City Council but councils in general struggle due to a lack of staff. The issue of council staffing is very much in the hands of the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform. Dublin City Council cannot hire street sweepers, engineers or architects without the sign-off of that Department. Therefore, it is an issue for central government, not Dublin City Council.

Councils face funding challenges in getting these homes built. This has been a significant contributor to the delays at St. Michael's House, which was demolished about 21 years ago.

I would hate to see Oliver Bond flats or Dolphin House hitting that milestone. Equally, councils struggle because Dublin City Council constantly has to run back to the Department of housing because the Custom House weighs heavy on them with unneeded and burdensome regulations. We now need help from central government to let the councils do this. We must fund them and give them the staff to make sure this regeneration happens.

The regeneration of social housing flats is within the parameters of the national regeneration programme, which targets the country's most disadvantaged communities, those defined by the most extreme social exclusion, unemployment and anti-social behaviour, as per housing Circular 11/2007, policy framework for the regeneration of local authority estates. It is the responsibility of local authorities to identify opportunities to advance regeneration programmes in line with this circular within administrative areas. The aim of regeneration projects is to create sustainable communities through a combination of social, educational and economic initiatives and also by rejuvenating the built environment through a mixture of demolition, construction and refurbishment of dwellings.

The Department is willing to fund local authorities for much of this investment. Local authorities, in developing their regeneration programmes, are required to adopt a holistic and strategic approach involving multiple local and national agencies in an integrated scheme to create sustainable communities and to address the underlying causes of deprivation in the area. The Department and the Minister fully support regeneration projects, which ensure that complexes with historical disadvantages are placed at the forefront of regeneration. Multi-year programmes are being funded for large-scale regeneration projects which concentrate on flat complexes in Dublin city that will either be rebuilt or retrofitted. The Department is actively engaging with the local authority sector to promote the preventative maintenance of local authority housing stock and provide significant funding for stock improvement to our works. With the support of Dublin City Council, the focus remains on regeneration projects which target the most disadvantaged communities, including those defined by the most extreme social exclusion, unemployment and anti-social behaviour. I will convey the points the Deputy raised to the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien. There is total agreement across the House to ensure the flat complexes that Deputy Costello mentioned see progress. I will certainly reflect that view to the Minister.

I thank Deputy Costello for raising that important matter. Before we move on, because this is my first opportunity to do so, I want to extend my congratulations to the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, on his appointment as the deputy leader of his party. I am conscious that in my role over the last number of years, we spent a lot of time and put a lot of effort into trying to encourage more diverse participation in politics. Young people are among those groups we want to see coming forward. To see a young deputy leader being appointed and joining a young Taoiseach is a move in the right direction. Well done to you.

So be it, but the Minister for Health has a habit of not appearing in the Chamber for Topical Issues, and this has been raised before.

I have asked for this matter to be discussed because it is reflective of the difficulties that can be experienced by people with life-long conditions and their families. The constituent of whom I am speaking is a 17-year-old girl. When she was born she was diagnosed with Treacher Collins syndrome, cerebral palsy and chromosomal abnormalities. She requires access to a variety of medical materials which are sourced through the HSE medical card scheme, and several elements need to be renewed on a regular basis. These include a suction machine, a portable nebuliser and a tracheal dilator. The list is extensive. I am only providing an outline. This young lady needs access to the general medical card.

Natalia has had a medical card since birth, which has given her access to a range of operations, procedures, appointments and medical interventions, both here and in France. It has also given her access to vital medical supplies. The family says the care they have received at all levels has been superb and they want to stress that. The issue they have is with a letter they received from the national medical card unit in January 2024, which set the scene for months of over and back within the medical card unit. They will be the first to admit that they had assumed that, given Natalia’s complex diagnosis and her situation, her medical card would automatically be renewed on a discretionary basis. They have described the process that followed as nothing less than tortuous. They had to submit 80 pages of documentation. They had to make an inordinate number of phone calls and ultimately had to devote a substantial amount of time and energy to reconfirm Natalia’s conditions, which, I must reiterate, are lifelong.

I should note that while they have been devoting all this time and energy to the review, Natalia’s parents have continued to look after her complex psychological and emotional needs. In all, they have questioned the process they have been subjected to and they have done this against the background of the concept of care and how it reflects on the State’s approach to care for people with disabilities and long-term conditions in the area of medical card provision. Their suggestions are constructive. I ask the Minister of State to accept their suggestion that life-long medical cards be considered in instances where life-long conditions, such as those I have described, are registered with the Department.

I also ask that a second suggestion be borne in mind. When people have disabilities that are not lifelong, the national medical card unit could issue a more concise document to alleviate the disruption that the reviews in their current form impose. I acknowledge that the Department cited the considerations of its 2014 expert panel on medical card eligibility. It stated that to list medical conditions in priority order for medical card eligibility was not justifiable. It added that a person’s means remained the main qualifier for a medical card and that discretionary medical cards can also be issued. The Department also referenced its pledge to keep medical card issues under constant review to ensure the medical card system is responsive and sensitive to people’s needs.

Given the complex and ongoing nature of the conditions certain people have and the demands they will always have for access to treatment and aids, surely there is an onus on the Department to resolve the complexity and arduous nature of the process that people have to endure. Those who have conditions that are complex and affect every part of their lives should be given a commitment that their needs will be provided for without the painful process that the reviews in their current form involve.

I thank the Ceann Comhairle and Deputy Browne for their kind wishes.

I also thank Deputy Browne for raising this important issue. Eligibility for a medical card is primarily based, as the Deputy knows, on a financial assessment, which is conducted by the HSE in accordance with the Health Act 1970. The HSE assesses each medical card application on a qualifying financial threshold. This is the amount of money that an individual can earn per week and still qualify for a card. It is specific to the individual’s own financial circumstances.

As of 1 June, there were almost 1.59 million medical card holders in Ireland, and just over 667,000 GP visit card holders. Persons aged 69 and under are assessed under the general means tested medical card thresholds, which are based on an applicant’s household income after tax and the deduction of PRSI and the universal social charge. Certain expenses are also taken into account. Examples of allowable expenses include rent, mortgage, certain insurance costs, childcare, maintenance and nursing home net costs. This helps to increase the amount a person can earn and still qualify for a medical card. Some social welfare payments, for example, child benefit and fuel allowance, are also exempt from medical card income assessment.

The issue of granting a medical or GP visit card based on having a particular disease, diagnosis or illness was previously examined in 2014 by the HSE expert panel on medical need and medical card eligibility. The group concluded that it was not feasible or ethically justifiable to list specific medical conditions in priority order for medical card eligibility. In following the expert group’s advice, a person’s means remains the main qualifier for a medical card. Against this background, medical cards issued are generally subject to review by the HSE in the usual way, taking account of individual and other relevant circumstances. Every effort is made by the HSE, within the framework of the legislation, to support applicants in applying for a medical card and, in particular, to take full account of the difficult circumstances in the case of applicants who may be in excess of the income guidelines. The HSE may exercise discretion and grant a medical card even though an applicant exceeds the income threshold where they face difficult financial circumstances, such as extra costs arising from an illness.

Social and medical issues are also considered when determining whether undue hardship exists for an individual accessing general practitioner or other medical services.

I assure the Deputy that in order to ensure the medical card system is responsive and sensitive to people's needs, the Minister for Health and his Department keep medical card issues under review. Any proposals are considered in the context of any potential broader implications for Government policy, the annual budgetary Estimates process and the legislative requirements arising from such a review.

I thank the Minister of State for his reply. I know every effort is made by the HSE to keep it within the framework of the legislation. Will a simpler system be brought forward so that families like Natalia's and Natalia herself, who has lifelong complications, are not faced with an 80-page document, dozens of phone calls and over and back trying to source a medical card? Will the Minister consider the two suggestions they made? One was that a medical card be given straight away to people with life-long conditions. They are registered at birth as having these life-long conditions. It is not the case that in three years, these conditions suddenly disappear for that family. The second was an easier system for those who do not have life-long disabilities. Surely, at this stage, we can have a more compassionate approach to issuing medical cards in these instances. If we are to introduce universal healthcare, which everybody in this House agrees on, there must be a need that should be put first in developing that system and where better to start than with those with lifelong medical conditions being given medical cards without all the bureaucracy and red tape? It is continuous. It is heartbreaking. Families have so much going on when looking after children with these conditions. I have had healthy children and grandchildren and there are times when you are filling out forms that it is unreal. Families dealing with conditions like these should not be faced with 80-page documents to try to source a medical card for a child.

I appreciate the difficulty for certain individuals and families. We all, as constituency TDs, try to work with families and individuals to support them in the application process. The HSE and all Departments and agencies should strive to make sure that applying for public services is a user-friendly process for everyone involved. As the Deputy mentioned, lengthy documents or a lot of over-and-back can be particularly difficult for people applying. I will reflect that feedback to the Minister for him to engage with the HSE. As I said, eligibility for a medical card is based on a financial assessment conducted by the HSE in accordance with the Health Act 1970, as amended. There are nearly 1.6 million medical cardholders and more than 660,000 GP visit cardholders. Budget 2023 facilitated better access to affordable high-quality healthcare, including an expansion of GP care without charges to children aged under eight and to people earning no more than the median household income, the abolition of all public inpatient hospital charges for adults and the extension of the free contraception scheme. In addition, up to approximately 500,000 additional persons who otherwise would have attended their GP on a private basis are expected to become eligible for free GP care under this expansion. This wider expansion means more than 42% of the population has access to free GP care. As outlined, the issue of granting medical or GP visit cards based on a particular diagnosis, disease or illness was previously examined and it was said it was not feasible or ethically justifiable to specifically sequence or list medical conditions in priority for eligibility for a medical card. In following the group's advice, a person's means remains the main qualifier. In circumstances in which an individual might be in excess of these immediate income guidelines, the HSE makes every effort to support applicants by taking full account of difficult circumstances such as extra costs arising from an illness, and it may exercise discretion and grant a medical card in such a consideration.

I warmly congratulate the Minister of State on his appointment as the deputy leader of the Fianna Fáil Party. I wish him the best of good luck in that new role. Since the start of the year, I have regularly asked the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste, the Minister for Health and the HSE about the future location of the genomics laboratory currently based at Crumlin hospital. This question arises due to the planned relocation of the children’s hospital in Crumlin to the new national children’s hospital site, bizarrely, without the transfer of the genomics lab. Even more bizarrely, we have yet to get any answer as to where this laboratory will be based. This is important for children with rare diseases, 30% of whom will never celebrate their fifth birthday, as a diagnosis is vital if they are to source a treatment to prolong their far-too-short lives. There is nothing worse than being unwell and not being believed even though you know there is something fundamentally wrong, except, of course, when it is your child who is unwell. Then, you are dismissed by doctors as just being an over-anxious parent. In fact, many rare conditions are not diagnosed until adulthood when it can take ten years to get a diagnosis. Over the interim years, incorrect diagnoses lead to expensive and often pointless medical interventions, including psychological care, on the assumption that the symptoms are all in their heads. In some instances, there is even inappropriate surgery. When patients are treated over the years for the wrong condition, it delays access to the appropriate care that could make a real difference to their quality of life or even the length of their lives. It also places huge yet futile costs on our health budget and denies patients vital tests and treatments that could transform their care. That is why getting an accurate and timely diagnosis is so vital for children and adults with a rare disease.

Despite the name, rare diseases are not rare at all and include all childhood cancers. We all know someone with a rare disease. In Ireland, about one in 17 people are, or at some stage in their lives will be, affected by such a condition. Currently, there is an approximate two-year waiting list for genetic diagnostic services that can revolutionise care for patients and particularly children with rare conditions. This is in stark contrast with the three-month waiting list for the same genetic services in Northern Ireland. It is not just those with rare conditions who face long delays. I have a constituent with a young family waiting anxiously for a BRCA2 gene test at St. James's Hospital. She has already been treated for breast cancer, a close family member has tested positive for the gene, and three more family members are waiting to be referred for testing. If this young woman has this gene, she told me she has a 90% chance of getting cervical cancer and an 80% chance of getting breast cancer. She has been told she will have to wait 24 months just to have a test. These are life and death delays. We require a definitive answer as to where the existing genomic laboratory at Crumlin will be located when the children's hospital site closes. This new site must become the centralised centre of excellence for all genomic testing for young and old, instead of the current piecemeal approach with services scattered across this city and country. Many samples are being sent to Wales and Scotland for analysis at present, resulting in months of delays for results. Have we learned nothing from the cervical screening scandal?

I appreciate Deputy Naughten's kind words. I am replying on behalf of Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly. I appreciate the opportunity to update the House on the important matter of national laboratory capacity for genetics and genomics.

It is important that we increase genomic laboratory capability in Ireland and invest in the infrastructure to drive this advancement. Genomic medicine is enabling a paradigm shift from a disease-orientated, one-size-fits-all approach in healthcare to an approach that is more personalised, predictive, preventative, data driven and cost effective. An important element of this is developing a national approach to genomic testing in Ireland. In 2016, the national genetic and genomic medicine network strategy group provided a report to the HSE. This report outlined the future of genetic and genomic services in Ireland. It recommended that a national approach to clinical and laboratory genetics and genomics should be developed. It also highlighted that the existing laboratory in Children's Health Ireland Crumlin was not designed to deliver a national function in this regard.

Following on from this report, a national strategy for accelerating genetic and genomic medicine in Ireland was launched in 2022. In line with Sláintecare, the strategy outlines a clear approach to developing a sustainable patient- and family-centred genetics and genomics service. An important element of achieving this is increasing genomic laboratory capabilities in Ireland. Strengthening infrastructure to drive advances in genetics and genomics is a key objective of the strategy’s focus. This will lead to the development of a national centre for genomic medicine services, including genomic testing and bioinformatics.

As the current focus of work is on assessment of existing capacity and need, a decision on the location of this new national centre has not yet been made. In the meantime, and while the 2022 strategy is being implemented, I assure the Deputy and the House that genetic and genomic testing will continue to be managed in CHI Crumlin and other acute hospitals, as appropriate.

The Minister is fully committed to developing a robust patient- and family-centred genetics and genomics service in Ireland and increasing wider laboratory capabilities for the betterment of patient diagnostics and care.

I thank the Minister of State for his response. The difficulty is that it is abundantly clear that genetic and genomic services are a low priority for the HSE when no laboratory capacity was provided for in the new children's hospital. We even have the redevelopment of the Crumlin hospital site as an elective hospital without anybody pointing out that this laboratory service would be forced to close to facilitate this new development. This is just not good enough.

However, it now provides TDs and the Government with the opportunity to provide leadership and direct the HSE and the clinicians to centralise all genetic and genomic services on a single site and develop a state-of-the-art service. This will ensure not only that patients have access to timely results but also that we can expand genomic medicine in Ireland to become a global leader. Cancer, for example, which is a disease of the genome, is caused by gene mutations that lead to uncontrolled cell growth. Genomics offers a promising avenue for cancer care, with about 5% to 10% of cancer-causing mutations being inherited. We can now go much further because comprehensive genomic profiling identifies genomic alterations across cancer types, providing doctors with the information needed for personalised, precision medicines.

As tumours grow, they shed cells into the bloodstream that can be detected by genomic sequencing. This liquid biopsy can detect hereditary factors, assist in cancer screening, aid in diagnosis and therapy selection, and monitor treatment.

The future of genomics in cancer care is bright with the development of personalised mRNA cancer vaccines. These vaccines, currently in clinical trials, use the same technology as Covid-19 vaccines to prevent the spread of cancer cells and, as a result, vaccinate patients who can then remain permanently in remission. However, without the laboratory testing facilities, we are denying Irish patients the opportunity to access this revolutionary cancer care.

I again thank the Deputy for raising this important matter. The national strategy for accelerating genetic and genomic medicine in Ireland outlines a clear approach to developing a sustainable patient- and family-centred genetics and genomics service. As I said, it is important that we increase laboratory capability in Ireland and invest in the infrastructure to drive this advancement. An important element to this is developing a national approach to genetic testing in Ireland. The current focus of the work is on the assessment of existing capacity and need. Beyond 2024 planning will continue for the development of a national centre. Consideration will be given to appropriate locations for such a centre. The decision on a specific location has not yet been made.

The development of a national approach will help build a service that is more efficient, future-proofed and sustainable. I assure the Deputy and the House that wider genetic and genomic testing will continue to be carried out at existing sites in the meantime. I also reiterate the commitment of the Minister and the Government to improving these services in Ireland and creating an equitable patient- and family-centred service. I appreciate the Deputy's raising the matter.

I join colleagues in congratulating the Minister of State, Deputy Jack Chambers, on his elevation to deputy leader of Fianna Fáil. As a fellow Fianna Fáil TD, I am delighted he has been appointed as deputy leader. From a party point of view, it is a very proud day, as it is for his community and his constituency. I know how proud he is of his country and he always tries to do what is best for his country. I offer him my congratulations.

My Topical Issue is a slightly unusual one. There are 30 students living in and around the Bantry area. Those 30 students will be going to Schull Community College next year. In this instance many of these students and families actually live much closer to Bantry. Some of them go to Coláiste Pobail Bheanntraí as it stands. For the students own good and for the good of their families, as well as for reasons personal to the students, Schull is now their choice of school. That is not to take away from Coláiste Pobail Bheanntraí which is a fantastic school. It is a diverse school with incredible educators.

Many of these students have sensory needs; some are autistic. Put simply, it is to do with the size of the different schools. For example, Coláiste Pobail Bheanntraí has an enrolment of over 700 students which is quite large for a school in west Cork. Schull Community College has about 350 students, so it is a completely different world. It is very much a personal choice based on the well-being of the students. For that reason, and based on the fact that 30 students from the Bantry area are looking to go to Schull, it is imperative that the Government steps in and provides a bus service for this route. It makes absolutely no sense that cars would be travelling those long distances to serve that route. That is pretty much it.

I am here to represent students like Olivia, who is autistic. Unfortunately, she is having difficulty coping with the larger numbers in her current school. It is obviously a busier and much noisier place because of the extra numbers and for that reason, it makes sense for her to go to Schull. That is her choice of school. She and everyone close to her know she will fare much better there in terms of her education, personal development and social development.

I know this request is unusual. I know it is not a case of students being between two schools. There is no doubt that Bantry is the closer school, but Schull is the school that will benefit these kids most. I hope that can be delivered.

I appreciate Deputy O'Sullivan's kind words. I am taking this on behalf of our colleague the Minister, Deputy Foley. Before I address the specific issue raised, I have been asked to provide an outline of the extent of the school transport scheme which is managed by Bus Éireann on behalf of the Department of Education. In the current school year, more than 161,600 children are being transported daily to schools throughout the country at a cost of €382 million.

Under the current terms of the scheme, children are eligible for transport at primary level where they reside not less than 3.2 km from and are attending their nearest national school as determined by the Department. At post-primary level, children are eligible where they reside not less than 4.8 km from and are attending their nearest post-primary school as determined by the Department. Children who are eligible for school transport and who complete the application process on time, which are those who apply and pay on time, are accommodated on school transport services where such services are in operation. Children eligible for school transport but for whom no service is available may be offered the remote area grant towards the cost of making private transport arrangements. The remote area grant is also payable for eligible children who may have to travel 3.2 km or more to or from a designated pick-up or set-down point.

Temporary alleviation measures at post-primary level, which have been in place since 2019, are being continued for the 2024-25 school year. Under these measures, transport is provided where there is a route in operation and capacity exists for concessionary post-primary pupils who are eligible for transport to their nearest school and are attending their second-nearest school and who applied and paid on time. Children not eligible for school transport may apply for transport on a concessionary basis only and will be facilitated where spare seats are available after eligible children have been accommodated. Where the number of ineligible children exceeds the number of spare seats available, Bus Éireann will allocate tickets for the spare seats using an agreed selection process.

As the Deputy will know, a review of the school transport scheme was completed and published. This review was conducted with a view to examining the current scheme and it is the largest review of the scheme since it was established in 1967. The Government is committed to working to achieve the report’s recommendation of expanding access to the scheme so that an additional 100,000 pupils can be carried by 2030. Overall, the recommended changes to the future operation of the scheme concern the expansion of the current eligibility criteria, addressing current operational challenges, charges and grants, and moving towards better integration with public transport to ensure the best value for money for the Exchequer. The scale of the scheme is significant, and any changes will take time to plan and implement. It will, therefore, be brought in on a phased basis.

As indicated at the time of the launch of the school transport review, these changes will include a wider cross-government effort between the Departments of Education and Transport and respective agencies. Planned pilot projects in the 2024-25 school year will provide valuable insights on the impact increased demand will have on the scheme, the potential to integrate public transport services with the school transport service and having more sustainable modes of transport. These insights will give an indication of the scale of planning and implementation required.

In the coming weeks, consideration will be given to having further pilots in other areas of the country. These will be considered where potential demand exists and where capacity or resources are not a particular issue. Bus Éireann has advised that in respect of the route raised by the Deputy, 17 pupils were not successful in obtaining a school bus ticket to the school in question. I note he used specific cases and feedback in the context of this route. It was said these pupils are not attending their nearest school and most pupils reside closer to Bantry, Skibbereen, Dunmanway and Kenmare. Following the payment closing date of 7 June, Bus Éireann has begun examining all applications for school transport for the 2024-25 school year. Arising from the analysis, routes may be altered, extended or withdrawn depending on the number and location of eligible children who will avail of school transport for the following year.

The answer I got was the one I was expecting. I am, though, making a specific plea for this area. The Minister of State is absolutely correct. Bantry is a much closer school in this area. In some instances, as well, it could be Skibbereen. This is based on student needs, however, and we should always put students and what best suits them first. Unfortunately, every summer, certainly ever since I became a TD, we have had this constant battle on our hands in our constituency offices coming up to July and August. It is firefighting. New blackspots emerge concerning routes in our constituency where students and children are not being looked after.

For the past year, one of these blackspots has been in the parish in which I live, Ardfield. In this case, five concessionary students were not able to get tickets. This year, in the same parish, and these are families living around me and people among whom I am living, 18 students will be concessionary. Some of them may get tickets, but at least ten of them will be left without a bus ticket. I am not sure how I am supposed to face those families, students and people living around me if I cannot get them bus tickets. In Ardfield-Rathbarry, students either go to school in Clonakilty or in Rosscarbery. For the students I am talking about, the school in Rosscarbery is their choice. This is where their parents and their sisters went. It is where they go, but they are not getting tickets.

I will hold up this map for the Minister of State to illustrate the problem. Each pin drop on the map represents the location of one or more students in the Ardfield area. These students are all living in the same area and most of them will be left without a ticket this year unless he intervenes. I would love if he could reach out to the Minister for Education. I will also do so. I am using this time now to try to help these kids to get a ticket and a seat on a bus to go to the school that their parents and others in their families went to in Rosscarbery. It is extremely important that this happens. We cannot leave these students behind again. We left them behind last year, but they need to get sorted this year. I thank the Minister of State.

I appreciate the specific difficulty being experienced by many of the students referred to by the Deputy. I will definitely reflect this issue to the Minister. Her intention and hope is that the changes being progressed from the wider review of the school transport scheme will bring about a situation that will ensure more students nationwide can qualify for and access the school transport scheme in the future. This is the wider impetus of our intention and of the collaboration I have seen between the Departments of Transport and Education in that context. I will most definitely reflect the concerns and the feedback raised by the Deputy regarding the difficulties interfacing with the current scheme and that this situation will leave students without any specific service for September.

As part of the analysis undertaken for the review, the Department has identified projected growth of pupil numbers nationally. There is wider engagement with stakeholders, including families and school communities, as part of the changes being implemented. It is intended to commence implementing revised eligibility criteria for the 2025-26 school year in addition to the pilots I referred to in my initial contribution. I will raise the feedback mentioned and bring it to the attention of the Minister in respect of the specific concerns raised by the Deputy.

It is hard to know where to start, such is the scale of the horrific abuse of horses revealed in the "RTÉ Investigates" programme broadcast last week. The first thing to do is to thank the makers of the programme and the whistleblowers who spoke to them, and acknowledge the investment of resources and so on undertaken by RTÉ to reveal what is taking place in this massively publicly-funded industry, namely, the horrendous abuse of horses. I also thank those campaigners from organisations such as My Lovely Horse Rescue, the National Animal Rights Association, NARA, and others that have been highlighting issues around the mistreatment of horses for a long time and that have managed, for example, to apply pressure for Shannonside to be shut down, at least for now.

What was revealed in the programme was, first, and most shockingly for people, the incredible and awful abuse, including that undertaken by supposed animal welfare officers, at Shannonside slaughterhouse just before animals were due to be killed. They were treated in the most brutal and inhumane manner as worthless, not worth any care and as pure objects to be kicked around or to be left dying on the floor. Second, massive smuggling of animals was revealed. It was estimated by RTÉ that up to 20,000 horses go missing each year from this country. The third revelation was fraud in the form of the changing of passports and microchips being entered into horses to facilitate them being exported as something other than what they were. Fourth, significant issues were found around food safety, where it appears that animals used for horse racing or showjumping were extremely likely to have had bute used on them. That is an extremely common painkiller for horses entering the food chain for human consumption when it is not safe for humans to eat. All that was underpinned by €76 million of public money going into the industry this year. From previous investigations and FOIs, we know the majority of that money is ending up with extremely rich individuals as tax-free prize money.

How has this been allowed to happen? There are two explanations.

One is that the Department of agriculture, HRI and the IHRB have been asleep at the wheel and the other is that a blind eye has been turned to what has been going on.

We have told that this horrendous, we are going to carry out an investigation and we will make sure that it does not happen again, the implication being that this is just one rotten apple when Shannonside Foods was the only slaughterhouse for horses in the country. As such, it is the entire barrel of apples in reality. In 2021, a “Panorama” documentary showed that Irish horses were being treated in the same way in slaughterhouses in Britain. The same promises were made then, but nothing seems to have changed.

I read in today’s edition of the Irish Mirror that, in 2018, a situation involving two sets of microchips in horses was revealed by a vet within the Department of agriculture. The matter was notified to the Government at the time and there was supposedly an investigation. We do not know what happened in that regard. The matter was also notified to the current Minister for agriculture, who was then Fianna Fáil's spokesperson on agriculture. Why is it going to be any different this time?

I will pose a number of questions to the Minister of State quickly. Where was the Food Safety Authority of Ireland in all of this? It has not even been mentioned. Why did the Department of agriculture inspectors, who would have been present when the slaughtering of the horses took place, never inspect the area where this incredible abuse was taking place? Are we going to have a proper digital passport system for horses? Are we going to deal with the systematic overbreeding of horses that underlies much of this? Are we going to have a proper independent investigation and independent regulation that is not done by industry, which is an incentive to continue with this industry?

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister, Deputy McConalogue.

The footage broadcast last week showing instances of animal cruelty was extremely upsetting. The Minister shares the reaction of viewers and the wider public who were appalled and upset by such a blatant disregard for the welfare of horses. He is certain that the majority of decent people who care for horses will be horrified by the scenes broadcast. It is important to stress that what we saw was potentially criminal behaviour by a number of individuals.

Arising from the information that the Department of agriculture became aware of in recent weeks, it has commenced an investigation into these matters with the support of An Garda Síochána. While it is important to ensure that the process continues without prejudice, the Minister states categorically that the full rigour of the law will be applied and that no stone will be left unturned.

In terms of immediate actions, he issued a notice on 14 June to the slaughter plant concerning the revocation of its approval for the slaughter of equines. The revocation of this food business approval means that the plant must immediately cease operating as an equine slaughter food business. Furthermore, the Department has placed restrictions on two equine holdings linked to the slaughter plant, prohibiting the entry or exit of any animal without prior approval.

It is clear from the documentary that a collective effort across the EU among member states and the Commission is required to improve the traceability system. The Department is committed to assisting in that process along with European colleagues and the Commission.

Protecting animal welfare is important and the Department takes it responsibilities in this regard seriously. The welfare of equines is protected by legislation and appropriate enforcement action is taken where breaches or shortcomings are identified. The Department has in excess of 200 authorised officers under the Animal Health and Welfare Act who carry out welfare inspections in every county. There have been 167 prosecutions taken under the Act since it entered into law in 2013 and a number of other investigations are ongoing.

The welfare of equines is further supported by the Department through its provision of funding to a number of horse projects nationwide, working with local authorities, charities and community stakeholders. Effective traceability is essential for the protection of equine welfare. Ireland’s equine traceability system operates within the requirements set down in EU law and is fully in compliance with those requirements.

In recognition of the importance of traceability to equine welfare, the Department has made improving equine traceability a priority in recent years. There have been a number of significant advances, including the introduction of a central equine database in 2013, followed by improved security features and equine passports in 2014. The Department also made it a legal requirement in 2014 to register all equine premises. In 2021, the first equine census was carried out. This was repeated in 2022 and 2023. A portal to check the validity of equine microchips or passport numbers was launched last year and 2023 also saw the Department provide funding for e-passports, which will help to simplify the updating of information in respect of the movement of equines. These developments, in particular the recent ones relating to technology and e-passports, will continue to move equine traceability forward.

The Department condemns any cruelty to animals. We are taking this matter seriously. An investigation has commenced and no stone will be left unturned in ensuring that the full force of the law applies.

Unfortunately, I do not believe the Minister of State that no stone will be left unturned, as we have been here before. There have been similar revelations in the past, yet the situation continued. There is an industry that is politically influential and powerful. Every time I raise the matter with the Minister, he spends his time talking about how great the industry is and so on. It is why we give it almost €100 million per year. What flows from trying to make profit out of animals without proper regulation, for example, the enforcement of the rule that people have to take care of their animals after it races, is the situation of some owners who, having already made money out of their horses, want to make a few hundred extra euro by having them killed for human consumption instead of paying the €200 to get the animal euthanised where they are.

The Minister of State said that the welfare of equines was protected by legislation and appropriate enforcement action was taken where breaches or shortcomings were identified. If so, why did it take an "RTÉ Investigates" programme to reveal this? How come RTÉ has to say 20,000 horses are going missing every year for this issue to be highlighted? The programme for Government refers to prioritising equine welfare based on a robust traceability system. We know now that there is no robust traceability system. Many horses appear to have two microchips and two passports so that they can be passed off as something they are not. We also know now that this situation was highlighted to the Department of agriculture in 2018. A veterinary inspector raised concerns on 13 March 2018 after he scanned the carcasses of seven horses at a slaughterhouse and found that six of them contained two microchips. Why has this situation not been dealt with previously? Why do we not have a practice whereby any horse involved in showjumping or horse racing automatically has its passport stamped as not being fit for human consumption because, 99 times out of 100, they will have had bute used on them? These are very serious questions to answer and I do not believe we have had those answers from the Minister yet.

I will pass the Deputy's feedback to the Minister. The footage broadcast last week was abhorrent and extremely upsetting for all of us who have never shown such blatant disregard for the welfare of horses or other animals. What we saw was potentially criminal behaviour by a number of individuals and I do not believe it was representative of the wider horse owning community.

The welfare of horses is protected by legislation, and where breaches or shortcomings are identified, appropriate enforcement action must be taken. The Department of agriculture will utilise all avenues open to it to ensure that there are appropriate consequences for those responsible for the mistreatment of animals.

It is clear that a collective effort across the EU, among member states and the Commission, is needed in respect of traceability systems. The Department is committed to assisting in that process.

An active investigation has commenced, led by the Department with support from An Garda Síochána. While it is important that the Minister ensures that the process continue without prejudice, he states categorically that the full rigour of the law will apply and that no stone will be left unturned.

I received an email today saying that the Minister would not be here to take Topical Issues. It is increasingly the case that Ministers do not appear to take Topical Issues. They are answerable to the Dáil and should be present. However, I appreciate that the deputy leader of Fianna Fáil is here to take questions.

I am raising the horrific situation at Shannonside Foods in Straffan in my constituency of Kildare North that was revealed in the “RTÉ Investigates” programme last week. Issues with microchips, the safety of the food chain and the security and reliability of the passport system were raised.

These issues all affect Ireland's international equine reputation, which the Government is so concerned about. Equally, there is the abject failure of the horse racing industry to make sure racehorses get to retire and are put to sleep with decency instead of being sold for a few quid with a few beatings thrown in before they are slaughtered. They are cheered at race meetings and then terrorised for meat. To be very clear, I am not vegan or vegetarian. I am not a hypocrite. I abhor the wanton cruelty that was shown to those animals.

I want to focus on several issues, which are licensing and welfare. When exactly was the operator licensed? This is important because the main operator has an animal cruelty conviction regarding horses from October 2012. To be licensed a person must be without a serious conviction in the previous three years. We need this date. I have a document from the Companies Registration Office stating Shannonside Foods Limited in Straffan was set up on Wednesday, 11 March 2015, a date which seems to be within the three-year conviction window. Was the operator's licence granted at this time or before or after it? I ask for this to be checked please.

Surely the fact of a conviction, regardless of timing, should be a major red flag for the Department. It beggars belief that anyone with an animal welfare conviction should be licensed at all. This three-year timeframe must be changed immediately so that nobody who has a conviction for animal cruelty can ever be licensed to handle or slaughter animals. Will the Minister of State check with the Minister for agriculture as to whether this is something he is looking at?

I attended the meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts today and I was shocked at how a Department official seemed quite blasé about welfare and seem to be splitting hairs on the examination of the holding area. It beggars belief that departmental staff or agents never thought about checking how the horses were held pre-slaughter. These are professionals and it never struck them, not once. The Department also told the committee this morning that its veterinarians only saw horses in good condition. Where were the other horses that were slaughtered disposed of? We need to know this.

With regard to ongoing welfare issues, I want to ask about the horses removed from north Kildare. In his reply to Deputy Murphy the Minister of State said the Minister contacted the operator on 14 June. That was last Friday. Amazingly, on Friday afternoon, the day before the Minister closed the operation, the horses were removed from Shannonside Foods in Straffan. This is incredible timing. Was it not very lucky? The Minister must disclose where these horses are, who transported them, whether it was on his say-so and in whose care they are now. On a welfare basis we need to know whether they were transported by the personnel shown on the "RTÉ Investigates" programme. Are they now in their care? I use the word "care" sarcastically. Given what we saw on RTÉ the Minister has clear welfare grounds to seize these horses, wherever they are. I believe they are in Limerick. I ask that the Minister do so immediately. Plenty of good people have contacted me to say they are willing to take them in and the Minister should look into this immediately.

I appreciate Deputy Cronin raising this important issue. I am taking this issue on behalf of my colleague the Minister, Deputy McConalogue. As I said to Deputy Murphy, the footage broadcasted last week showing incidents of animal cruelty was extremely upsetting and the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, shares the reaction of viewers and the wider public who were appalled and upset by such a blatant disregard for the welfare of horses. The vast majority of people who care for horses will have been horrified by these scenes and it is important to stress that what we saw was potentially criminal behaviour by a number of individuals. As I have said, the Department of agriculture has commenced an investigation into these matters with the support of An Garda Síochána. While it is vital to ensure this process continues without prejudice, the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, states categorically that the full rigour of the law will be applied and no stone will be left unturned.

In terms of immediate actions taken by the Department, on 14 June the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, issued a notice to the slaughter plant concerned revoking its approval for the slaughter of equines. The revocation of the food business approval means that the plant must immediately cease operating as an equine slaughter food business. Furthermore, the Department has placed restrictions on two equine holdings linked to the slaughter plant prohibiting the entry or exit of any animal.

In terms of the Department of agriculture's role and function in relation to the activities at Shannonside, the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, would like to clarify the level of controls in place at the various premises involved. The Department supervised the slaughter activities at the approved slaughter facilities at the plant in Straffan in accordance with legal obligations. There was a full-time Department presence at the facility on the days on which slaughter took place, usually one day per week. The food business operator presented the animals he wished to slaughter to departmental staff and a veterinary inspector carried out an ante-mortem inspection of each horse to determine its health and its fitness for slaughter. This was accompanied by a visual identity check of the animals and of the submitted identity document, a check on the animal to identify a microchip, a check on the identification document to ensure it matched the presented animal and the microchip and that the animal was not excluded from the food chain, and a check against the central equine database as further verification as to identity and eligibility. Following slaughter, the carcass was subject to post-mortem veterinary inspection and, where necessary, in line with the random national residue control plan, samples were taken to check for medicinal residues.

The building on the holding adjacent to the approved slaughter plant, where the majority of the footage was filmed, does not form part of the approved slaughter plant. It is not the lairage of the approved plant and is not subject to direct veterinary supervision under the relevant food and feed hygiene regulations which govern the operation of slaughter plants. The Department does not have a permanent presence on equine holdings, however under the Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013 an authorised officer may enter and inspect any land or premises where animals are present. All persons keeping horses are required to have an equine premises registration number. This particular holding was subject to an inspection by officers of the Department in 2023, at which time no welfare concerns were identified.

The activities shown last week, as they related to potential interference with the traceability of horses, extended to matters allegedly taking place in other member states. It is clear that a collective effort across the European Union, among member states and the Commission, is required to strengthen the system. The Department is committed to assisting in this process.

The Department of agriculture has an important role in protection of animal welfare and it takes its responsibilities very seriously. The welfare of equines is protected by legislation and appropriate enforcement action is taken where breaches or shortcomings are identified. The Department has 200 authorised officers in every county. There have been 167 prosecutions taken under the Animal Health and Welfare Act since it entered into law and a number of investigations are progressing. The welfare of equines is further supported by the Department through its provision of funding to a number of horse projects nationwide. The Department also recognises that effective traceability is essential for the protection of equine welfare and public health. I have said much of this to Deputy Murphy.

I thank the Minister of State. I heard the same thing this morning about how everyone is appalled and upset and that we now have a criminal investigation and a departmental investigation. To be honest, it seems to be handy cover for the Minister and the Government. The Department of agriculture has serious questions to answer. These questions are just as serious as those for the company. None of this happened on its own. None of it happened out of the blue. It happened because it was allowed to happen and people were used to a blind eye being shut to it.

Under law the departmental staff who were there can have access to any building where animals are kept. It is too coincidental to think RTÉ managed to get this on film but the departmental veterinarians who were there did not see how the animals were being treated. It was the same thing last July when we saw the "RTÉ Investigates" programme on the poor calves that were brutalised, kicked, beaten and thrown around the place. There was not a care in the world for them and they were only a few weeks old. What is the Department's attitude to welfare really? We would wonder whether the lightning move to shut down the plant was also a move to shut down the necessary scrutiny of the role of the Department of agriculture and the culture in the Department. It happened because it was allowed to happen.

Leopards do not change their spots. When someone with a previous conviction for animal cruelty gets to handle animals and supervise them, especially at the end of their lives like this, the leopard still has it spots. It adds insult to injury. It is insulting to the ordinary workers in the equine industry in Kildare. We are known as the "thoroughbred county". The ordinary workers who work in the stables and who work with horses love the animals. They love working with horses.

Some of them were really upset to see, the other night, what happened there. There has to be birth to death care of these animals. They make a fortune for their owners. It was terrible to see them being treated the way they were. It seems that the only thing the Department cares about is traceability. It does not seem to care about animal welfare at all. I want answers to the questions I asked today. I want the Minister of State to follow that up. The Ceann Comhairle is aware that I asked questions last week that were not answered properly. I sent them back to the Ceann Comhairle's office to ensure I get answers. We are entitled to answers.

I thank Deputy Cronin again for raising the issue. As I said, the footage that was broadcast was abhorrent and extremely upsetting for us all. Many people across communities would never show such a blatant disregard for the welfare of horses. That is why what we saw was potentially criminal behaviour by a number of individuals and there needs to be consequences of that. The welfare of horses is protected by legislation and where breaches or shortcomings are identified, appropriate enforcement action is undertaken. The Department of agriculture will utilise all avenues open to it to ensure there are full consequences for those responsible for the mistreatment of animals.

As I have said, it is important a collective effort across the EU is undertaken as part of this process. The Department is absolutely committed to ensuring this issue is fully investigated and that those responsible are subject to the full force of the law. An active investigation has commenced, led by the Department with support from An Garda Síochána. While it is important that the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, ensures the process continues without prejudice, I state categorically that no stone will be left unturned. I will reflect the feedback the Deputy gave today to the Minister.