Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 12 Jun 2024

The Order of Business is No. 1, address to Seanad Éireann by Mrs. Mary Robinson, former President, to be taken at 1 p.m. in accordance with the arrangements agreed by the House on Tuesday, 21 May 2024, and No. 2, Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024 – Report and Final Stages, to be taken at 3.30 p.m.

It is both my profound joy and sadness this morning to pay tribute to and thank a person who has minded us for 22 years here in Leinster House. I am talking about our good friend, Martin Murray, who will retire on Friday. Martin has been an extraordinary friend to many of us in this House. He has always been kind, caring, stern when he has had to be, but always very professional. I have grown to know and admire him over the years, and he is a person I have great time for. For the information of both Members and those in the Public Gallery, he had a previous career in newspaper journalism and editing and was an avid boxer and footballer in his youth. I am told by his friends among the ushers and others that he hopes to spend his free time, if he has free time, with his daughter Aisling and his two granddaughters Elsa and Ava. As Members know, Martin has a huge travel bug for going to Malta and he hopes to spend time there. I say both personally, and as Cathaoirleach of Seanad Éireann, many thanks to him for what he has done for us in Leinster House. I wish him enjoyment of his retirement and he must not be a stranger to us. Go raibh míle maith agat.

I welcome guests of Deputy Michael Ring from Crossmolina, County Mayo. They are Eithne Cosgrove and John Cosgrove. I congratulate John, who is an All-Ireland dancing champion. Comhghairdeas. I also welcome Tom Cosgrove and Marian McDonnell, their nana. I welcome them all and thank them.

On behalf of the Fianna Fáil group, I add my congratulations and thanks to Martin and I wish him and his loved ones good health and happiness in his retirement.

I ask everyone to spare a thought for the count staff from Kildare County Council in Punchestown because as we speak, there is a third recount to deal with the elimination of a candidate; it does not even relate to an actual seat. There is a fourth recount because there have been discrepancies in the previous three counts. We were there until the early hours this morning and as soon as I am finished here, I will be going back down. The last three seats in the country remain to be filled there. The staff have done a phenomenal job. I know they are absolutely exhausted at this point.

It is always important to have occasions where we can celebrate pride of place and a sense of joy in where we live. One such festival is June Fest in Newbridge. I was a founder member. Initially we had Bealtaine and then it was Junefest. One of the unique things this year took place last Wednesday. Unfortunately, I did not get to it because obviously, 48 hours before the local and European elections, we were out knocking on the doors. People from women's sheds from all over the country gathered there and they broke the Guinness Book of Records for the longest line dance in the world. A big shout out to those from all the women's sheds all over the country who came to the Curragh Racecourse to do that and to all those involved in the Newbridge women's shed who started the whole process.

Very concerning for all of us is the RTÉ "Prime Time Investigates" show to be aired this evening and tomorrow relating to the traceability of thousands of Irish horses. It also looks at cruelty to these fine animals, particularly in a facility near Straffan which, I understand, is the only place for horse slaughter. Part of it is licensed by the Department of agriculture but what is happening in a really bad way is taking place in another building that is not licensed. We will all be glued to the television this evening and tomorrow. We must absolutely root out this cruelty to animals. We are all shocked at what we are hearing about. I mentioned the HRI annual report about a month ago. It has put a new focus on animal welfare, which is welcome. I know we will be returning to this afterwards.

I join you, a Chathaoirligh, in the remarks you made about Martin Murray. I was talking to him just before coming into the Chamber and he said absolutely nothing about the retirement. I certainly join you and wishing him well. I know all of our colleagues in the Fine Gael group would like to do so as well.

Gaeloideachas supports education in Ireland through the Irish language. Today I joined a group of students from schools in the south Dublin area looking for a Gaelscoil in Dublin 2, 4, 6 or 8. They have been involved in this campaign for some considerable time. They are not alone. There is a huge appetite for education through the medium of Irish. It is an appetite that is not being met at the moment and I do not know the reason for it. I ask the Leader to consider a debate on this issue. They are not alone. There was a group outside today and they were very articulate in their desire for a Gaelscoil in Dublin 2, 4, 6 or 8 and for the establishment of a facility that would serve their needs. Of course, there are Gaelscoileanna in Dublin, but they are not meeting the demand from parents for education through Irish.

In my area, in Cherrywood, there is a demand for a Gaelcholáiste at secondary level. I am not sure what the block is within the Department. They are looking for a Gaelcholáiste in the Cherrywood area. Cherrywood is a new area of Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown where Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council has essentially established a planned area. The houses and businesses are now filling up. We have put in place playgrounds and many other facilities. It is well served by the Luas, but the educational facilities also need to be put in place. One of the demands from the local community there is for a Gaelcholáiste, a secondary school through Irish. Throughout the entire Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown area, there are only two such secondary schools, Coláiste Eoin and Coláiste Íosagáin, but they are co-located in a campus in Stillorgan or Booterstown. That is the only secondary school serving the community of Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown.

Cherrywood is also looking for a Gaelcholáiste. It is a totally reasonable and appropriate request from a population that wants to have the choice to have their children educated through Irish. It is a valuable commodity for the State. We should be supporting it at every level. I do not know what the block in the Department of Education is. We should ask the Minister to come to the House to talk to us about the provision of Gaeloideachas and the opportunity for every child in this country who wants to be educated through Irish to be educated through Irish at both primary and post-primary level. I support all the calls from various communities for Gaelscoileanna and Gaelcholáistí.

It is great to see some of the candidates who contested the European Parliament elections here. I thank them. It is not easy to compete in elections. I also thank the 949 people elected to our local councils. Anyone who puts their name forward to compete in an election is to be admired. It is not an easy task. I congratulate all the participants. I offer thanks to those who did not succeed. In the past few days, I had the difficult task to contact about 19 - only 19 - Independents who stood to be re-elected and did not get elected. It is devastating because it defines their political career and their standing in community whether they like it or not. It does hurt. We are all human and we are impacted by words and reactions, but that is democracy. Let us not forget the people who put themselves forward for election at this difficult time for them and for their families. They may be asking questions of what they did wrong or what they should have done. Sometimes they did nothing wrong; that is just the nature of this business.

I want to thank a great colleague and friend Martin Murray who has worked here for many years. Martin is really a politician of all type. We never came in this gate into this hall without talking to Martin. I knew of Martin as a visitor here but I also knew of Martin because he worked with great colleagues of mine in the Irish Press. Martin tells great stories of the demise of the Irish Press and, of course, his relationship with the Oireachtas and some of our great leaders here and how he got this job. He had his ears to the ground. His feet were always on the ground. He communicated with people in many ways. We will greatly miss Martin for his gems and nuggets of information and how he dealt with us and supported us in our work. He is one of many here, but he has been exceptionally good at what he has done. He is always on the ball in terms of politics. I wish him all happiness and success in what he decides to do.

I thank you, a Chathaoirligh, and the Leader for organising to have the former President of Ireland, Mary Robinson, to come to talk to us later. As the Leader will know from her campaign, a just transition is a major issue. Our farmers, growers, foresters and fishers need to see the benefits of just transition. They will be the topics I will be raising with the former Uachtarán na hÉireann this afternoon. That will be my focus. I am looking forward to listening to what she has to say. Given her powerful role as an ambassador on the world stage, I also want to send some clear messages and signals that our Irish farmers, fishers, growers and foresters need support with just transition. I would welcome a debate in the coming weeks on the practicalities of just transition on the ground for our communities.

I join others in wishing Martin Murray every success for a very happy retirement. I again thank him for everything he has done for us over many years. He will be sorely missed.

I offer my congratulations to those MEPs who have been elected and in particular our two colleagues from the Chamber, the Deputy Leader, Regina Doherty, and my good friend and comrade Lynn Boylan. I wish everybody well those continuing counts. I am hoping to head back to Cork. I have been reliably informed that I will be eliminated this afternoon. It is not often that someone gets to say that in the Seanad. Having gone through the process, I just want to wish everyone well. The count is some operation and I thank the count centre staff in particular.

I am thinking of our colleagues in Kildare in particular. My God, we owe all of them a debt of gratitude as well.

Moving on from the elections, I wish to raise an issue that has been brought to my attention just this morning. I was not aware that a strike is under way in the National Advocacy Service. My colleagues in SIPTU are actually on strike. It is a real concern because the Citizens Information Board, which is the employer, is a State-funded body. Workers have gone on strike because they have had no choice but to do so. Let us think for a moment about what these workers do. They provide supports for more than 1,500 disabled people each year, making in-person advocacy interventions in areas including housing, access to justice, healthcare, safeguarding and supported decision-making. This work includes accompanying clients to meetings with State agencies, helping advise them in court cases and working with them in hospitals and long-term care settings. They are absolutely essential workers. They have gone on strike because their pay and conditions are completely out of line with others who do similar work and because the service cannot even recruit staff such is the poor pay and conditions on offer.

We need the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Humphreys, to intervene. This situation should never have been allowed to arise. Right now, we have people on picket lines. This strike is not just for one day. The workers are on strike until such time as they get pay justice. The impact on some of our most vulnerable people in the community is horrendous. It should never have come to this. I call for an urgent debate on the issue. I hope Senators from all parties will call on the Minister to urgently intervene. These workers should not be on strike. They should be at work and able to do their jobs supporting some of our most vulnerable citizens. I hope there will be urgent action on this issue. In the meantime, I hope to join the workers on the picket line when I am back in Limerick tomorrow.

I pay tribute to Martin Murray and thank him most sincerely for the grounding he gave us as newbies. I do not feel like a newbie anymore but in the beginning having people to look to who knew what they were doing was very helpful. I thank him very much and wish him the best in his retirement.

I echo the call of Senator Ward regarding the Gaelscoileanna. There certainly is a dearth of choice. I note the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, has announced a poll of all parents in the next school year, in the autumn, in which they will be asked what would be their preference and choice in schools. It will be important to mobilise people to participate in that poll to ensure people have a choice. If they do not want their child to go to a religious school, that is okay too. If we have more Educate Together and multidenominational schools and more Gaelscoileanna, we will have all of those choices. It is important that our schools represent our communities as they are. Certainly, in Dublin 8, we have a particular problem in that there are people who have to bring their children to Sandymount to an Educate Together school. They are travelling long distances every day when there are facilities within the community that could be developed into choice-based schools, which would be very helpful.

I ask for a debate on racism. Throughout the campaign, we heard of some horrific experiences by candidates in the field. The newly elected Councillor Supriya Singh experienced extreme racism. I am supporting families at the moment who are experiencing horrific racism. One mother cried on the phone to me, saying she is afraid her child will not make her 12th birthday because she fears she will take her own life due to the level of racism on the ground. That is unacceptable. The Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien, published a national action plan against racism. It is important we get statements on the record of this House so that we know how it is faring. We need to know whether it is effective, who is being held to account, how education is involved and about the bringing of charges against families who are engaged in systemic racism against others in their community. I would really appreciate statements on that issue.

I welcome the Government's mid-term review of the National Cyber Security Strategy 2019-2024, which was published in the last few days. Next week, I will bring a delegation of academics to Tallinn in Estonia to visit Foundation CR14, the NATO Cooperative Cyber Defence Centre of Excellence, CCDCOE, and a number of other places. It is important that we get on top of our game with respect to cyber and cybersecurity.

I am delighted that the National Cyber Security Centre is about to follow up on the suggestion I made some time ago to get behind the training programmes and certification of cyber professionals. We need to establish in this country a benchmark for what is an academic cyber programme. There are too many programmes in our universities that have "cyber" tagged on to the end of them, with graduates coming out believing they are cyber professionals. We need two or three tiers of cyber professionals. We need operators who go through further education and training. Then we need risk managers who are capable of managing risks within an organisation without having any hands-on requirement in the area of cyber. We also need good quality undergraduate, master's and PhD programmes. We can be the best in the world. We can lead the world in cyber and we should.

On a final point, a lot of nonsense is spoken about who we can and cannot liaise or co-operate with when it comes to defence and security matters. There is absolutely no problem in co-operating with countries that are members of NATO in order to underpin our cyber needs. That is something we want to do.

I note Martin Murray has left the Chamber. I am rather surprised to hear that a young man like him is retiring. I wish him well and hope he has a good retirement.

I have received confirmation from my colleague, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy McConalogue, that he is in a position to support farmers in north Louth with funding to bring their lands back to the pre-flooding position. Last October, as we all know, there was serious flooding in north Louth and many other areas of the country. Severe damage was caused to fields, fodder and fencing and there were landslides. Since then, I have been engaging with officials to try to get a funding package in place for farmers in north Louth. I am very grateful that this morning the Minister came through for them. The affected farmers will receive funding and will engage with the Department in the coming months.

I join others in congratulating those candidates around the country who have been elected to our local authorities and the European Parliament. It takes great courage to put your name on a ballot paper. It is a very public interview. Not everyone can succeed. The fact that so many people are still interested in participating in our democracy is hugely important and necessary. I send congratulations to all of those who have succeeded and commiserations to those who did not. Many will get another turn in the future.

I have raised numerous times on the Order of Business and in Commencement matters issues with the extension of Westdoc services to my area of Moycullen, Rosscahill and Oughterard, where GPs were outside the Westdoc service. I am delighted that the Galway city cell of Westdoc has agreed to accept into the Westdoc service the GPs in Moycullen and Oughterard who provide a tremendous service in our area. This is great news not just for the GPs but for the public who will now get full Westdoc out-of-hours services in Moycullen, Rosscahill and Oughterard. We know the importance of eircodes in providing assistance to emergency services getting to rural houses and many urban areas that might be difficult to find as well. Eircodes have improved access to healthcare in many ways but the extension of Westdoc is to be greatly welcomed. Having the full Westdoc service now in our area of Moycullen, Rosscahill and Oughterard is great news and testament to the advocacy of many of the GPs there who have been fighting for inclusion in the Galway city cell of Westdoc. I would like to acknowledge that.

I congratulate all those councillors who have been elected to date.

We have lost some very good people across the system as well. We should think of them and their families. It is a really disappointing time when you suffer a loss like that. I want to commend the Leader on a very credible performance in Midlands-North-West. We will gain a seat there, which is good, but she played her part seriously in that as well and I commend her on that.

I also rise this morning to pay tribute to a former Member of this House, former Seanadóir Terry Leyden. He has now become, and I have to give him his proper official title, the honorary consul of the Republic of Azerbaijan in Dublin with jurisdiction for Ireland. He is not finished in the world of politics yet. I know he is very proud of this particular appointment and we wish him well. If the House agrees, we will send him a letter of congratulations.

To finish, there is one very serious aspect of the elections that have just gone by. In many parts of the country, 50% plus are not voting. For one, I do not accept excuses such as it is the summer time, students have gone away or students are at work. Yes, that takes a certain percentage but the figures are very low and I suggest to the Leader that we should have a debate on this issue in this House. Quite a number of people, which is growing, do not think it worth their while voting anymore. We need to have that debate. We need to look at spoiled votes and papers not being stamped. All these things need to be looked it. There is no reason papers should not be stamped. It is all over the place. If we are serious about all of this, I would like to see a debate and the relevant Minister brought in. People on every side will have valid things to say on this but we should have that debate.

I thank the Cathaoirleach and everyone who contributed to the Order of Business today. The first contributor was Senator Fiona O'Loughlin and she spoke about the ongoing count that is still taking place in Kildare. They are on recount number four I believe. I commend the staff as it is a difficult job and I imagine looking at the same ballot papers four times over is challenging. We wish them well. Hopefully, we will see the candidates still in the race for those final three seats over the line shortly. I want to also wish the organisers of June Fest the very best of luck in Newbridge. I congratulate the women's sheds from across the country that have broken the Guinness world record for the longest line dance. Well done to them.

On a more serious note, in respect of the "RTÉ Investigates" programme that will air tonight regarding the horse industry, I share the Senator's concerns. I certainly will be watching that tonight. I agree with the comments made that cruelty to animals is completely unacceptable and it needs to be dealt with. Certainly, the "RTÉ Investigates" programme does a very good job in uncovering and unearthing things that are happening right around us and performs an important public service for all of us in bringing this to light and bringing it to public attention.

Senator Ward raised issues around education through Irish and the availability of primary and secondary level education to all children that wish to be educated through Irish. I suggest to the Senator that a Commencement matter on the issue might be appropriate to see if we can get some further correspondence from the Department.

Senator Boyhan spoke about the elections and the 949 councillors elected to our local authorities. He also spoke about the number of councillors he has dealt with in the last number of days who have lost their seats, as did Senator Murphy. I think it is important to acknowledge that with all the elation of those who have done very well, and congratulations to those who have been elected, it can be a very difficult day for those who have lost their seats and did not make it, as well as their families and communities. I still commend them on putting themselves forward and that is democracy; somebody has to win and somebody has to lose. It is important to consider those who have not made it through.

Senator Boyhan also spoke about the just transition and the need to make sure that farmers and those in forestry and those in the fishing sector are looked after in terms of trying to meet our climate and emission reduction targets. We need to ensure that a just transition is just and he has asked for a debate on the issue. I can discuss that with the Senator at a later point in terms of what particular Department he may like to conduct the debate with.

Senator Gavan spoke about the elections and his impending elimination. I will probably after him tomorrow at some stage but just to say it is fascinating to watch the count centres in terms of the scale of the operation, particularly European counts.

It is a mammoth task but it is fantastic to watch democracy literally in action and to see what is happening. I concur with the Senator's remarks in terms of wishing those still in the mix well and those who have been elected.

I take on board the points the Senator has made in relation to the National Advocacy Service and Citizens Information and the important role that it performs. I certainly hope the matter can be resolved. It is an important service for the public.

Senator Mary Seery Kearney also raised the issue around parental choice in schools and the lack of availability of certain types of education. She mentioned Educate Together, for example, and acknowledged that the Minister, Deputy Foley, is conducting some research into this to see what parents want in terms of education provision across the country. In some parts of the country, there is lots of choice and in other parts of the country, particularly in rural areas, there is very little choice. It is a work in progress and I think there has been great progress in that space in the last decade or so.

Senator Craughwell spoke about the National Cyber Security Centre, and made the point that Ireland can lead the way in cybersecurity. We can work with other like-minded countries in terms of defence and security and I certainly agree with those remarks.

Senator McGreehan raised the issue in respect of farmers in north Louth and the ongoing advocacy in which she has participated in asking for funding for fodder for those farmers. She welcomed today that the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, has delivered for those farmers and has delivered a funding package. We are very happy to see that and I commend the Senator on her work

Senator Kyne also congratulated those who have contested elections and all the candidates who have been elected, as well as those who contested and maybe did not make it. It is important to have people going forward and I agree with that. I am very aware of the Westdoc situation in his area and it is good to see progress on that as well. It is an important service. People do not just get sick Monday to Friday. They get sick at the weekends and out of hours, so it is great to see some progress on that.

Finally, Senator Murphy spoke about the elections as well and those who lost their seats. We have had some very good people who we have worked with for many years. It is very difficult. It is one thing to go for something and not make it but at least something has not been lost as such. However, if you are a sitting councillor and you have lost your seat, particularly after a long length of service, it is a huge blow to a person and their family as well. It is important that those people get the phone call and appreciation is expressed for the work they have done and the public service they have given. That is really important. I know I have spoken to a number of our own colleagues over the last few days who did not make it or have lost seats and it is a difficult space to be in. When one door closes, another one might open. People can still be very proud of the service they have given to their communities over many years.

The Senator also raised the point about papers not being stamped and the point was raised yesterday as well by other Senators. We probably can find a better way of making sure because at the end of the day the person's vote is not counted and they have been deprived of a vote, unintentionally, and people do make mistakes. It is human error but there has to be a more efficient way. I think somebody yesterday mentioned the use of a bar code. Was it Senator O'Loughlin?

There are other ways, and the bar code was in another country that she visited for election monitoring, of dealing with it. Even for the European count in Midlands-North-West, there was something like 20,000 spoiled ballots. Many of those were not filled in, and that is a different body of work but certainly, not stamping a ballot paper is something we can address. There has to be a solution to that because ultimately, that person has not got their vote counted.

It can really make a difference in a local count as we have seen where Senator O'Loughlin is. There was a count in Swinford that went to a second recount and was decided by one vote. An unstamped ballot could make the difference. It is an important point to make. That concludes the Order of Business.