Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 28 May 2024

I thank the Cathaoirleach and welcome Minister of State, Deputy Anne Rabbitte to the House. I raise this issue as it has been brought up with me on a number of occasions in the last couple of weeks. It relates to the permanency of primary school teachers the length and breadth of the country. I understand from a number of those teachers that the vast majority of them are employed on a five-year contract basis and if that is the case, this provides no great permanency to them. These teachers want to settle down, buy houses and rear families. If people are on a contract for five years, the bank will not entertain them to get a loan and buy a house, so it has very serious consequences for people who are highly educated and have gone to secondary school and third level and gotten their degrees. In some cases they are more than adequately educated and have more degrees than are necessary for the profession they are carrying out. Even so, in many cases they find that being on a five-year contract, they cannot get a loan to buy a house, settle down and raise a family.

This also raises questions about the Catholic schools management agency. It gives out the jobs in rural Ireland, in particular, although not solely there and they are agreeing the five-year contracts in many cases.

I ask the Minister to look at this. It should be changed. There should be a more permanent basis for people who are looking for jobs as primary school teachers and who, as I said, want to settle down in an area. If they want to move from a city to a rural area, that should be facilitated.

As the Minister of State well knows, there is huge pressure on teachers in city areas. I propose that those living in rent pressure zones should get an increase. They should be on a higher wage than those in other areas because houses are more expensive. The cost of living is higher in Dublin and the other cities than it is in rural areas. It is more expensive to buy a house or an apartment, in addition to transport, parking, and all the other costs involved with people's and families' day-to-day lives. The Government and the Minister for Education should look at an increase in wages, or a supplement to teachers' wages, for those teaching in city centres or the commuter belts located in areas where rents are high. Such an increase could be based on the rent pressure zones. I propose that the Minister of State brings that back to the senior Minister. It makes common sense. Many people would agree with it. There are more costs for a person teaching in Dublin than for somebody in a rural area. That is a fact of life in this country.

I hope the Minister of State will have a good answer for me on both those issues and, if not, that she will be able to bring them back to the senior Minister.

I thank the Senator for raising this matter. I am answering on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Foley. I will read her script and then address some of the points not covered in it.

I thank the Senator for raising this important matter. With regard to the introduction of a special rate of pay for teachers in rent pressure zones, pay and workplace reform measures for public servants have been governed by a framework of public service pay agreements for a number of years, with the new public service agreement in place until June 2026. The value of public pay deals to the Government and the taxpayer is in ensuring that pay costs are managed in a sustainable and orderly way and in a climate of industrial peace. By and large, public pay agreements have delivered on these objectives over the past 12 years. The public service agreement has allowed a programme of pay restoration for public servants and new entrant pay has been gradually restored over the years. The previous agreement, Building Momentum, provided for increases of 8.5% to 9.5% over the entire agreement, with lower paid workers receiving higher percentage increases.

The public service agreement provides for further baseline increases of 9.25% for more than 100,000 staff in the school sector as well as retired staff. On teacher pay specifically, these increases will increase the pay of a teacher on the top point to approximately €85,000 per annum. The starting pay for a teacher will be around €46,000 per annum, almost €20,000 higher than the 2011 rates. There have been other recent measures under Building Momentum to increase pay and allow new entrant teachers move up the pay scale more quickly.

The Government is committed to the delivery of quality public services and will continue to approach public service pay in a balanced way that is reasonable and fair to both public servants and the taxpayer. However, it acknowledges that the cost of renting and the current price pressures in society present particular challenges and are a source of concern for all public services, including staff in the education sector. I will certainly bring the Senator's comment on the Catholic Primary Schools Management Association back to the Minister. When it comes to contract work and trying to secure loans, be they for mortgages or car loans, contract workers must show they have permanency of employment. If they are seeking to purchase or engage in a loan, are coming to the final year of their contract and cannot show permanency from there out, they cannot secure a mortgage or car loan. One of the basic criteria insisted upon by the Central Bank is for people to demonstrate they are in permanent employment.

People who are on a contract placement are excluded from entering the housing market or finding their own affordable solutions. It can also apply to a loan for a car to allow them to travel to their place of work. I will certainly bring that back to the Minister, Deputy Foley.

Another conversation which is not in my script but which I have seen work very successfully has been the so-called London rate. The Senator spoke about those living in the city or in the commuter belt, where rents are higher and it is far more expensive for our public servants. In my area of responsibility, that includes people working in the disability field, people such as healthcare assistants, occupational therapists, physiotherapists and speech and language therapists. In certain CDNTs we have failed to recruit many of those professionals because of the cost of securing a property. It is no different in teaching. Perhaps other Departments such as the Department of public expenditure could look at the possibility of introducing a Dublin rate.

I acknowledge the response by the Minister of State. I agree that the pay increases in recent years have been quite significant. Despite that, there are enormous challenges facing those young people. As the Minister of State said, those in the last year of a contract in particular have no chance of getting a loan. We all know about the Central Bank rules on accessing finance and drawing down loans and mortgages. I appreciate that the Minister of State is au fait with the problem we have here and that she will bring this back to the senior Minister. I hope the Minister will take action on both those issues.

The Minister, Deputy Foley, provided me with these closing remarks. Housing remains a priority matter for Government, led by my colleague the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage. The Housing for All strategy delivers on the programme for Government commitment to step up housing supply and put affordability at the heart of the housing system. Rent pressure zones were introduced by the Government in recognition of the rising costs of rent and are located in parts of the country where rents are highest and rising, and where households have the greatest difficulty finding affordable accommodation. They are intended to moderate the rise in rents in these areas and create a stable and sustainable rental market that allows landlords and tenants to plan financially for their future.

However, these current pressures are not unique to any one sector, and therefore a measure such as that referred to by the Deputy could not fairly be explored for any one group of workers. The Senator and I can both agree that it should be for all. The introduction of a measure such as a special rate of pay in rent pressure zones could occur only under central processes and any specific proposals would need to be considered by the Department of public expenditure.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit go dtí an Teach inniu. I welcome the Minister of State and thank her for taking the time to be here. A few years ago, the schools summer programme, commonly known as July provision, was quite limited in its scope. At the time, it was offered to children with particular special needs. It did not include many children for whom the summer holidays were a time of regression and difficulty. The much-welcomed expansion of the programme in 2021, post the Covid pandemic, has been remarkable, with a much wider cohort of children involved and a more holistic experience for pupils to help them keep the connection with schools and their peers. This year, the programme also includes a post-primary scheme, a home-based programme and a pilot special school programme designed to ensure a focus on supporting special schools, which is very welcome.

This year again, all primary schools can offer a summer programme for pupils with complex special educational needs and those at risk of educational disadvantage. The summer programme is intended to be an enjoyable experience for students and the staff. A range of activities will be available which will reflect this year's theme of building confidence and connections and includes opportunities for student-centred play-based engagement. The programme is designed and developed to ensure supports are targeted to better assist children and young people to have access to a school-based programme.

It is fantastic to see the number of children and young people participating in the summer provision as well as the number of schools offering it, which has increased significantly since the programme was introduced in 2021. It is a credit to the hard work of the staff, who help to strengthen the sense of connection and belonging the children feel in the school community. Where a school is not running a summer programme or a place on a school-based or alternative programme is unavailable, children and young people with complex special needs can avail of a home-based alternative, which is an excellent development.

The summer programme has clearly gone from strength to strength. Last year's programme benefited more than 50,000 students and saw a 50% increase in the number of special schools participating. A 50% increase is quite remarkable. It would appear the potential for the scheme is even greater than anticipated. In light of that, I commend the Minister, Deputy Foley, on first introducing this excellent scheme in 2021. However, it would appear now that, because of the success of the programme, more funding is needed so that all these children and families who need it can avail of it. I am hoping the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, might outline some positive developments in that regard in her response to me this afternoon.

I thank Senator Gallagher for raising this important issue. As I said earlier, I am taking it on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Foley. The Minister of State, Deputy Hildegarde Naughton, is also in that Department and I am replying on her behalf too.

Meeting the needs of children with complex special educational needs and children at most risk of educational disadvantage is a priority for Government. I want to start by saying there has been significant progress made in the summer programme over the past few years. The full funding of €40 million, as in previous years, is available and all funding is being utilised to meet the needs of our most vulnerable.

As the Senator said, numbers certainly have grown substantially since 2019. In 2023, approximately 1,400 schools and more than 50,000 children took part in the summer programme. This is compared to 300 schools and 13,000 children who took part in 2019. In 2024, the total number of schools running a summer programme is anticipated to be even higher than last year, showing that the measures that have been introduced are an effective incentivisation for schools. I pay tribute to the staff and to the SNAs who make this possible. We all know the value and the importance of routine for these young people who wish to participate in it.

On the Senator's specific issue, the answer he requires lies in the flexible grant funding. To reflect the unique circumstances that have arisen in special schools during the summer months, additional grant funding of €2,000 was provided for each week that a special school provided a school-based programme. Other enhanced measures are in place to encourage schools' participation. These include: a centralised application process to reduce the administration burden on schools; earlier payment to schools and staffs; and additional capitation that is significantly more favourable compared to the normal capitation during the school year, which is approximately €5 per week; the rate is cognisant of all costs associated with running a summer programme.

All of the measures for the 2024 summer programme, including the capitation, have been designed to maximise the number of schools and children taking part in the school-based programme. Special schools receive a greater rate of capitation to reflect the unique circumstances of running the programme in those settings. The home-based summer programme will again be made available for students with complex special educational needs where a place on a school-based programme is not available to them. Under this strand, grant funding is made available so that parents and legal guardians can engage the services of a teacher or SNA to provide tuition or care support as appropriate in the child's home. Parents of eligible children can arrange this programme over the school summer holidays to best suit their needs. That is the flexibility that has clearly been demonstrated from the Department.

As group-based programmes provide a more holistic experience for children which help to retain the important connection with peers, the Department is also engaging with other groups who are interested in running an educational programme to ensure the widest possible participation. The aims of the summer programme are to support children to maintain their connection with education, to build their confidence and to increase their motivation through peer engagement and socialisation.

It is also designed to promote well-being and, for those who are at key transition stages, to help ensure they continue on their educational journey. It is intended that the range of programmes on offer will continue building on the success of expanded programmes that ran previously and will incorporate feedback from education stakeholders as to how to better support the programme for all involved in summer 2024.

As the Senator outlined, flexibility and agility are required on the part of the Department, teachers and SNAs. Most importantly, however, as the Senator also said, it is about putting the children at the centre of this programme and ensuring that they have continuity of support. This is the case for the Department and all of us as public representatives.

I thank the Minister of State for her comprehensive response. She highlighted the work of the staff and the SNAs in this area. Without them, we would not have a summer programme. We owe them all a great debt of gratitude for their work in this regard. As the Minister of State outlined, the scheme has been a great success. The numbers participating are increasing year on year. I welcome that €40 million has been allocated for the programme this year. It would appear, however, that because the numbers participating are increasing, more funding will be required to ensure that no children or no parents lose out in the context of summer provision. Many of them depend very much on it.

I respectfully request that the Minister review the situation, and, as the Minister of State indicated, keep the entire programme under review. It is vital that this is done. The financial contribution from the Department should also form part of any review.

I thank the Senator. As he said, this programme needs to be kept under constant review. If we do so, it will ensure that no child will be left behind, regardless of the uptake by schools. It is fantastic to see €2,000 per child being made available through grants and that this funding can be used to support children in the home or in education, depending on the needs of the family and the child concerned, in conjunction with SNAs.

The Senator would have raised the point previously as well about SNAs being able to stay on the payroll during the summer. Not having them falling off it and going onto social welfare is important. If they want to make themselves available for work, now, they can do so. The flexible weeks and flexible grant funding demonstrate the Department of Education's willingness to ensure that parents are supported. Most importantly, it also demonstrates that children are supported to meet their needs in a group setting, in the home or in the community. Equally, if schools are not available, it is important that there is a wider aspect to this programme. The Senators mentioned the Little Wonders facility in his area. It is important that such facilities are able to avail of the grant as well.

Fáiltím roimh an Aire Stáit. I thank the Minister of State very much for taking this matter on behalf of the Minister. I raise the case of Gaelscoil an Inbhir Mhóir in Arklow in County Wicklow. The school has 279 students. It was established in 1998. It operates now, for the most part, out of a series of prefabs dotted around a soccer pitch.

We have a school here that has been in place for more than a quarter of a century. In 2017-18, in discussions between the Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board, the Gaelscoil and Gaelcholaiste na Mara, the second level school in the area, agreement was finally reached to the effect that a greenfield site would be provided for these schools, something that was much needed. The school currently has 11 mainstream classes and three special classes. Planning permission in respect of the new stand-alone education campus was granted in August 2022.

Since then, nothing has happened for the school communities. My understanding is that a request was made for a revised proposal as part of the Department's decarbonisation strategy. We are not seeing -and I have been in contact with it - a sufficient level of urgency being shown by the Department with regard to getting this educational campus built. We are, therefore, already into the second year of the planning permission that was granted for five years and not seeing any progress being made on site. We should look at moving to a situation whereby a call for tenders would be issued in September.

The Minister of State knows how long it takes for a new school to be built.

I visited the school and saw the condition of some of the prefabs. They are among some of the worst I have seen. There is a brilliant school community but it constantly has to repair and look for new prefabs from the Department. It is not acceptable, particularly where there has been sanction and agreement for constructing a new educational campus.

There had been a break in population growth in Arklow but due to the wastewater treatment plant being constructed in the area it has the potential to become one of the fastest-growing towns on the east coast. The school communities there need support. I have to say from the contact I have had with the Department I totally understand the school's frustration. It had been sanctioned for a school and planning permission was sought but we do not see the level of movement that is necessary. I hope that in the statement the Minister of State will issue today on behalf of the Department, we may see progress. If not, I will ask her to take it back to the Minister, Deputy Foley, and I will seek a meeting with her directly to look at the tender documents issued this autumn.

I thank Senator Byrne for raising this matter. As I said previously, I am taking this on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Foley. It gives me an opportunity to update the House on the position regarding the planned construction of the new school for the Gaelscoil in Kilbride, County Wicklow, which has 279 pupils and was established in 1998.

The school project is part of a campus project on a greenfield site with a Gaelcholáiste at Kilbride, County Wicklow. It has been devolved for delivery to Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board, KWETB. The brief for Gaelscoil an Inbhir Mhóir includes the provision of 16 classrooms, two classrooms for special education needs, a general-purpose room, a library, a multipurpose room, special education rooms, a principal's office and other ancillary accommodation. In brief, it is everything needed to run a school.

The design team has responsibility for progressing the project as expeditiously as possible through the various stages of architectural design, planning, procurement and construction. The project for Gaelscoil an Inbhir Mhóir is currently at stage 2b of the process, which is the planning and detailed design. Departmental officials requested the design team to incorporate a decarbonisation strategy with a revised cost plan as part of the stage 2b submission. From what Senator Byrne said in his contribution, this was issued in August 2022.

Planning permission for the project was granted subject to a number of conditions, one of which was to complete an agreement in relation to wayleaves required on the site. I assume this has been completed. A legal wayleave agreement is required to facilitate access and egress arrangements to the site, as well as for access to underground services required as part of this project. Departmental officials recently facilitated a meeting with all parties, including the project design team and landowners to establish the scope and footprint of the required wayleave extension. Costings for the proposed revisions are being prepared by the design team for submission to the Department. The revised stage 2b report and costings will be examined by the Department from a technical and cost perspective, in line with the requirements of the public Infrastructure guidelines. Pending receipt and review of the stage 2b report, it is not feasible to give an indicative timeline for the project’s practical completion.

Since 2020, the Department has invested in the region of €4.8 billion in our schools throughout the country. This involved the completion of more than 800 school building projects, with construction under way at 300 other projects, which include 30 new school buildings. These 300 projects at construction involve a total investment of more than €1.2 billion. In addition to the progression of 90 projects from tender stage to construction that was announced in April as part of an €800 million investment, the Department’s planning unit is also progressing a flow of projects at stage 2b to tender stage over the course of 2024. I certainly hear Senator Byrne's call that the school he is representing is part of this. I will certainly bring this back to the Minister, Deputy Foley.

This progression of projects to tender is being done as part of the management of the overall capital programme within funding parameters and is primarily focused on priorities for additional capacity.

With the sewer issues in Arklow, which is a growing commuter belt town, being addressed, this is a priority for Senator Byrne and the people he represents. The next steps for Gaelscoil an Inbhir Mhóir will be considered when the updated stage 2 submission has been received and assessed by the Department. To be fair to the Minister, she has given the Senator clear guidance as to what needs to be done there, which is to get the costings back to the Department as soon as possible.

I thank the Minister of State very much. I do not doubt the investment in schools right across the country. However, I am aware of many other school projects which started after that relating to the Gaelscoil in question. Planning permission was obtained and the sanction was granted for the development of this project, but it has been leapfrogged by projects relating to other schools. The building work relating to those schools has either been or is in the process of being completed. Why is the process relating to this school taking too long? It is the understanding of the school and the ETB that everything is in order. I appreciate that the Minister of State is only giving the answer on behalf of the Department, but I am concerned about the line to the effect that "it is not feasible to give an indicative timeline for the project’s practical completion". That does not fill me with a great deal of confidence.

I ask that the Minister of State bring my concerns back to the Minister. I will be seeking a meeting with the Minister on this matter. I appreciate the Minister of State's help.

I thank the Acting Chair and Senator Byrne. I will certainly bring back to the Minister the Senator's request for a meeting. I have no doubt that she will facilitate him in that regard. What jumps out of the script that I just read into the record is the overreliance on the word "wayleaves". It is incumbent on the Department of Education and its planning team to knuckle down and to work with the various stakeholders to take that word off the table. On reading that, the hold-up is not just about the feasibility, it also relates to the wayleave. When one gets into the legal aspect, sometimes people somehow manage to put a full stop after absolutely everything. It is up to the Department to remove the wayleave from the equation. Hopefully, the Senator will begin to see progress at that point.

I thank the Acting Chair. The Minister of State, Deputy Butler, is more than welcome. It is always a pleasure to have her before us. Her Cork roots always come out in the responses. In that context, I am looking forward to her response.

There is a need for the Minister for Health to review the recent changes that have been made with regard to home support services in Cork county. In April, a number of significant changes to those services were introduced. Under the traditional model, home support was given to a family or an individual on the basis of need and a home support worker worked with the family or individual involved on a permanent basis. Links were built through the community off the back of this. We knew exactly who the home support workers were. They came at a certain time of the day and became part of the family and the set-up. They worked very well with clients. There has been a change to the rostering system, however, which means that because of a ruling agreed between the Department and the workers, the latter are now operating on the basis of a rotational system. This means that families and individuals do not have the same support workers coming their homes on a continuous basis.

In my part of the world, people who would traditionally have had two calls a day, one in the morning and one in the afternoon, are only being visited once a day, usually in the evening. This does not suit the families involved. The knock-on effect is that, unfortunately, the quality of the service is not the same. There is great frustration within some families, in particular about how the service is operating. As stated, the rostering system was changed on foot of an agreement between the HSE and staff representatives. However, the clients were never informed.

They were never a part of this change in process. They were never asked for their opinion or view but were just told there had been a change. I had a client on to me who is over 100 years of age. She lives independently beside her son's house. She had previously had a call in the morning and another in the afternoon and was now being offered a mid-afternoon call. This lady is 102 and a wonderful person, if I may say so. The family fought for major changes and eventually the HSE did make a change but that is the kind of upset I am trying to avoid. I have other clients on to me who have traditionally got two calls a day but who are now down to one call every three days, if they are lucky. The home support service, which is key, has been diminished.

The home support packages are unique. They help people to live in their own settings with their family for longer. They are a unique part of ensuring the promotion of the community aspect, which does a great deal for our State. I am genuinely concerned about how these new proposals were brought forward, about how the rosters work and about the service being provided on the ground. When this agreement was made, the actual clients were not involved. The clients, the patients and people who use these support services, had no input and they are not happy. The implication is that they do not see the same person or that the person does not come at the same time. They traditionally got two calls, often in the mid-afternoon and the morning. They knew the person who would come and built up a relationship. Unfortunately, that has now gone. We need a review. Does the Department propose to carry out a review of these new rostering set-ups in which the clients would be involved because they are not very happy with what is currently being proposed?

I thank the Senator very much for raising this issue. It is not the first time I have heard about it. I was in Bessborough on Saturday and two councillors raised it with me. I was in Bessborough in Cork city for the opening of the first ever dementia lodge for people with early onset dementia to support them and their families. I was spoken to by two councillors and have also heard about the issue from two other people. I have been looking into it to find out what the situation is.

As the Senator will know, there is no bigger advocate for home care than me. There is a triangle of supports to support older people to age in their own homes. This consists of home care, day care and meals on wheels. Today, some 56,000 people the length and breadth of the country are receiving home care. In 2024, the overall home care budget has risen to approximately €730 million. This represents an additional €235 million put in place since budget 2021. Last year, we broke all records and delivered 22.1 million hours, an increase from 17.9 million within the lifetime of this Government. That is an increase of 4.2 million hours. It is the right thing to do, as I know the Senator will wholeheartedly agree.

The HSE reports that there were 7,599 people receiving home support services in the CHO 4 area at the end of March. There were 506 clients on a waiting list for additional hours and 842 were waiting for a new service to commence. It is important to note that those services had been funded. It is not a funding issue. The HSE has advised that priority is given to those in the community who have acute needs and to those assessed and waiting in acute hospitals who are unable to return home without supports.

I am committed to improving the way in which the HSE delivers its services across the country and there are a number of important initiatives in place to ensure this. The HSE is examining how it delivers home support and how technology can best be used to support it. The HSE is in the process of procuring a new ICT system that will improve its ability to ensure that services are allocated fairly and efficiently.

The HSE is also in the process of rolling out a rostering system across the country. I do not want anybody on a waiting list. We are trying to use the best people available to deliver home care in their own areas. I know that concerns have been raised in the CHO 4 area, where people have experienced changes in how their home support is being delivered as a result of this system being implemented. The aim of the home support service is to deliver support that enables the HSE's clients to live safely and independently at home. The HSE will always endeavour to facilitate a client’s wishes and personal preferences, where possible. However, the contract of employment contains a requirement for staff to be rostered.

We have to roster staff. We have to have people working seven days over seven. We just cannot have people working five days over seven. This has been agreed nationally following engagement between staff representative groups and the HSE. Healthcare assistants now operate in teams working to set roster arrangement over a four-week period.

In the delivery of service and the implementation of rostering, the HSE recognises the care needs of its clients and endeavours to minimise disruption to service and undue stress while these new arrangements are introduced. The HSE has kept these teams, where possible, to a cohort of four staff members. Therefore, if a person is receiving home care seven days per week, it is not possible for the same person to deliver that morning and evening seven days per week. That person needs time off as well. With a cohort of four people, the client should only be seeing those people over the course of the whole week. I am really disappointed to hear that the Senator has experience of people who had two calls previously reduced down to one call. That was never the purpose of this. I am disappointed to hear about a 102-year-old lady living who is at home on her own beside her son. I could not support people who had two calls previously now only getting one call. I will come back in the next piece.

There are two issues, the first of which is that when the rostering was changed, there were talks between the HSE and the staff. The clients were not involved. That was a failure. The clients should have been involved regarding this issue.

The timing of when the calls are made is becoming a major issue. People were traditionally getting a call in either the morning or evening and they knew the time. Now, it could be any time in the day. It is not suiting the clients themselves. The clients or patients, these wonderful people who are living independently, were used to having the same person call. A bond was built up. They knew their needs and there was no, "Hello, who are you?" That breakdown is becoming a big issue in the public domain about how we need to sort this out. The community aspect is wrong. That is a huge issue for us.

There have been, and I have evidence of this, changes in rosters with the result that people are not getting the same service they were getting previously. That is a major issue on the ground. I personally believe we need to review this. The old system worked better. The system that is in place at the moment is not serving the community. I urge that we take a review of what happened since last April because it is not working on the ground.

There were challenges with the old system in that when a person rang in sick on a particular day, often a client was left without somebody. That was one of the reasons the HSE has been working over the last two years on this particular new rota, which has been working across many areas. It was rolled out in west Waterford. We had teething at issues at the start, but that has certainly improved. There are always going to be teething issues. The roster system has been in place in parts of the service for more than two years. Following the initial transition to this new arrangement, clients have found that they are still in receipt of quality home care. The HSE is working as best it can. The Senator must remember that the HSE also outsources a lot of its work to private providers. It is working as much as possible to ensure a client's current healthcare assistant continues to deliver some of his or her support, while equally ensuring the remainder of his or her service is delivered by similarly qualified and professional home support staff. However, I understand where the Senator is coming from, especially if somebody, for example, might have early stage dementia and is familiar with one particular person. I can talk to the Senator offline about some of the things we are doing to try to sort out this issue.