Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 16 Oct 2024

Scoil Mochua in Clondalkin provides education and disability supports to approximately 76 children from Dublin and the wider Leinster region. The children who attend the school have profound physical and intellectual disabilities. For 30 years, the school, its staff and its parents have worked together to transform the lives of hundreds of children. The school's patron is the Central Remedial Clinic, CRC. Scoil Mochua receives €2.65 million a year from the Department of Education, which pays for the school's staff salaries and running costs. The CRC administers this funding through its administration and payroll sections. Due to the specific needs of the children, Scoil Mochua faces significant additional costs. Its insurance premium is higher than that of a mainstream school. The heating system must be turned on early in the morning to ensure the building is warm when the children arrive. Cleaning services have to be of a hospital standard. For many years, the CRC has provided €125,000 in additional funding to the school to cover these costs.

Last year, a person from the HSE was seconded to head up the CRC. This year, the CRC decided to change these funding arrangements. There was no meaningful consultation with Scoil Mochua. It was dealt a double blow. It was told that it would have to manage its own payroll and expenditure from September and that the CRC was withdrawing the additional funding of €125,000. This will have a devastating impact on the school and, most importantly, on the children. The CRC has said it made this change because its funding comes through a service level agreement with the HSE and therefore must be used for disability services only. However, up until 2023, this service level agreement explicitly mentioned Scoil Mochua and the provision of educational services.

Last night on "Prime Time", the school's principal, Sophia Casey, and the chair of the board of management, Matt Swain, outlined the impact of these changes. The school faces a real funding crisis. The funding is being withdrawn with no plan or pathway to plug the gap. The rug has been pulled from under the feet of those who work non-stop to keep the school going. Parents Avril Mc Stravick and Colin Bell also spoke on "Prime Time". Their worry and the pressure they are under was written all over their faces. They say there are exhausted and worn out and that all of their time goes into looking after their children. It is simply not fair to ask parents to fundraise to make up a shortfall of €125,000.

Caithfidh an Rialtas dearbhú do leanaí agus tuismitheoirí Scoil Mochua go réiteofar an ghéarchéim mhaoinithe seo. These parents are angry. The staff and board are alarmed for the future of the school and children. They need a solution and a plan. They need the Government to put their minds to rest and for this funding to be assured. Will the Minister give them that assurance today? Given the seriousness of the situation, will the Ministers for Education and Health urgently meet with Scoil Mochua and the CEO of the Central Remedial Clinic to work out a resolution to this matter speedily?

I thank the Deputy very much for raising what is a very important issue for the school and for education policy in general. I know she agrees that all the girls and boys who go to that school and their teachers deserve support and recognition in the learning received and the teaching provided. It is therefore very important that this issue be raised here today.

I will comment on the general supports available to our schools that look after young girls and boys who have additional and further needs and then deal with the very specific issue the Deputy has raised as regards Scoil Mochua and other schools like it. The efforts of the Government and our country to respond back to the additional needs of young pupils within our schools are the reason €2.9 billion was allocated to the budget of the Department of Education to support these schools and special schools involved in meeting the additional educational needs of young people and teenagers who need additional support. I am very conscious that, in standing here in the Dáil using figures like hundreds of millions or billions of euro, we cannot lose sight of the plight of that young student in the classroom. As the Deputy recognised, we also cannot lose sight of the pressures faced by teachers, school principals and others involved in running schools. Figures like these may appear very big and, at times, distant from that daily reality. However, I still have to make that point to emphasise the support that is available. It is the reason we now have so many special needs education staff within our country. There are more than 1,600 additional staff available, which means we have 23,000 such staff at the moment. We are now hiring additional special education teachers to meet the very needs highlighted by the Deputy both generally and with regard to this school.

With regard to the issues raised in respect of the school itself, enhanced capitation rates are available to schools that provide special services, special educational supports and special classes. This is designed to recognise the reality of the additional funding needs and pressures such schools face, which have been indicated today. In addition to this measure, under this year's budget, an additional €45 million in cost-of-living supports will issue to schools to help with the issues we know they are facing as the cost of running a school goes up due to changes in access to goods and supports and the cost of electricity and energy. All of this is in place because we need to ensure that our schools are warm and well supported and that the teachers and pupils have the supports we want them to have.

On the specific issue of the need for engagement with the school, I understand such engagement between the school and the Department of Education is under way with the aim of finding a way to deal with the issues highlighted on "Prime Time" last night and by the Deputy in the Dáil this afternoon. I expect that meetings will happen in this regard. The Ceann Comhairle should be assured that, with the funding available to us, this Government wants to ensure that these pupils get the support and care they need and deserve and that the teachers get the support they need, given the nature of the work they do and the value we all place on those efforts.

For all that, schools are generally underfunded. This specific school is underfunded to the tune of €125,000, which is needed for heating, cleaning and insurance costs. The CRC has provided a backstop for the shortfall in money coming from the Department of Education. The Minister can tell the House if this has changed but the information I have been given is that Department is flatly refusing to make up this shortfall or to allocate any additional money. If there is now engagement between the Department and the school, that is very welcome news but the Minister might clarify when that happened. The Central Remedial Clinic is in receipt of €24 million of public money, and rightly so. It is astonishing that it would unilaterally decide to take €125,000 from this school. It is not an enormous sum of money in the bigger scheme of things but it is a fortune to this school. In its absence, the school faces real difficulty. If this is let go ahead, there is a possibility that the school may not be able to function.

It is as real as that. The pressure point comes in the first quarter of next year so there needs to be immediate action. This €125,000 needs to be found.

I can absolutely assure the Deputy of our desire, which I am sure is the desire of everyone in this House, to continue to support the school beyond quarter 1, well into what I am sure will be an important future for it in meeting the needs and educational needs of the pupils it is looking after. To reiterate what I said a moment ago, we recognise in general the demands that schools are facing and the demands that this school in particular is facing due to the work it is doing.

On the specific questions that the Deputy put to me, first with regard to the CRC, she is right that it is in receipt of State funding, as she said, for important work that it does. I will have to find out, and am sure I will be able to, why it made the decision that it did. Second, I want to again offer an assurance that engagement is ongoing. I am sure that engagement was happening before "Prime Time" and before this question in the Dáil-----

-----but I know it will only be heightened by the exchange that we are having here today. Given the funding we are making available for special education, particularly for these schools, to meet the needs of the pupils and support the teachers, I hope this can be brought to a place where the school can get the support it needs so its valuable work can continue in the future.

Services for disabled people are either threadbare or non-existent. These are services in areas like education, healthcare, social care and transport that are not optional extras. They are services that disabled people are entitled to as a right. If, eventually, they are provided, it is only ever after a fight. Funding shortfalls, staffing shortfalls and lack of resources are the only guarantees. As highlighted. last night, "Prime Time" covered a crisis in a special school in Clondalkin, Scoil Mochua. Its patron, the Central Remedial Clinic, had been making up a funding shortfall between what the school actually cost to run and what the school receives from the Department of Education. That gap is an enormous €120,000. Parents in that school are now being told they need to raise €120,000 in funds every single year. These are parents who are caring for children who have complex needs. They are exhausted and now they are expected to become full-time fundraisers. It is a case of asking parents to bail out a State that is awash with cash because it will not properly fund schools. It is welcome that there will apparently be engagement with Scoil Mochua now, but Scoil Mochua is not the only special school in difficulty and it should not take a "Prime Time" programme for an engagement to begin with these schools. Many constituencies do not even have a special school, including my own constituency, Cork South-West.

The special schools alliance will give a presentation in the Oireachtas later today outlining major issues with access to therapists and special schools. I hope there will be many Government representatives there. We all know that this Government is in its final days. In the election campaign, the coalition partners will have to defend their record on disability. Given the way in which disabled people of all ages have been systematically failed, I really do not know how they will do that. According to the ESRI, their budget will push more disabled people into poverty. Nearly 13,500 children are waiting for appointments with children's disability network teams and personal transport grants that Fine Gael and Labour axed more than a decade ago have still to be replaced. I could go on. The Government has wasted opportunity after opportunity to improve the lives of disabled people. The litany of failure is shameful.

Tomorrow, the Social Democrats will launch our disability policy. In it, we will make clear that we will not go into any future government unless there is a senior Ministry for disability. We clearly need a full Minister for disability so the interests of disabled people are actually represented at the Cabinet table, because they have been absent for far too long. This is a dealbreaker for the Social Democrats. We will also announce plans about how we will resource services, address staffing shortages and provide oversight and accountability. Does the Minister agree with the ESRI's analysis that the Government's budget will push more disabled people into poverty? Will he tell us more about the engagement with Scoil Mochua and whether funding is there? Does he agree that we need a Minister for disability to finally get the political will that is needed to address the many issues and shortcomings in our services?

The Deputy appears to be approaching this issue through the lens of claims that may or may not be made at election time. That is not the approach of this Government. We have a senior Minister with responsibility for disability. That Minister is Deputy Donnelly. The Government made a decision to move disability services out of the Department of Health and move them. Excuse me; the Minister is Deputy Roderic O'Gorman. He focuses on that in addition to the responsibilities that he has.

The issues the Deputy is raising are ones the Government takes seriously. I go back to the point that I made in reply to Deputy McDonald. Amid the different figures that we will trade and the general political claims that will be made here, I am keenly aware of that young girl or young boy with a disability or additional needs and the support she or he needs early in life. I am keenly aware of the value of those children's teachers, their healthcare professionals, the work their schools do, and the need to support them. The point I would respectfully make to the Deputy is that if she looks at what we as a Government have aimed to do in recent years, we believe and can demonstrate that the efforts have been providing additional supports.

From a special school point of view and that of the important issue that the Deputy raised at the start of her question to me, since 2020, 11 special schools have been established and 1,300 new special classes are being provided across our country. For this school year alone, more than 400 new special classes have been sanctioned, with classes now provided in every county and four new special schools due to open shortly. That is not a reference to amounts of money, which I will come to in a moment. That is the tangible reality of spaces being made available in schools, new schools being opened, and new classes being opened in schools. I, like the Deputy, am so aware of the challenge that those young pupils with disabilities and additional needs face in their lives, and the commitment that this Government has and which we all have to give them the support they need in life and at the start of their journey in life.

The Deputy went on to make the point about disability services and the support available. Again, in no small part due to the leadership of the Minister, Deputy Roderic O'Gorman, and the work he has done, which I have seen him do over many years, we have seen in this Government an increase of €1.2 billion being made available to disability services within Ireland, which is an increase of 58% over five years. That increase is happening in recognition of the needs that the Deputy and other Deputies raise. To bring to life what that means to young lives and the support they need, it is the reason, for example, why we have 46,000 children in our country receiving additional support through the spending of the money that I referred to. I agree with the Deputy that we have to work harder to meet those needs but I respectfully make the case that there is progress with regard to schools, special classrooms and the support of our disability services while always acknowledging the further work that we have to remain committed to doing.

The Minister says he is keenly aware of that boy and that girl. When looking at the budget figures, it does not feel like it. He does not have to take my word for it. The ESRI said it thinks the budget will push more disabled people into poverty. Instead, the Government decided to try to splash the cash around indiscriminately in a brazen attempt to try to buy votes rather than invest in these critical services, such as disability services. That was a political choice that was made. On budget day, we saw what we have seen in every other budget from this Government, where we are told of a huge figure that is being invested into disability services this year. The Minister said €336 million but like every other year, we tabled questions to the Department. The Minister has conflated two different figures. We can all agree that the existing level of service is not enough. Like I said, there are no motorised transport grants. How many children are waiting for children's disability network teams? There is not one fully staffed team. It is not enough.

The additional funding, it turns out, was €42 million. That is €22 million less than last year. Does the Minister accept that is a decrease on the additional funding from last year at a time we know the existing level of service is threadbare?

On the question that Deputy Cairns raised, which again it is a really important issue regarding how we support our disability services, she made reference to the existing level of service but, of course, any change there can still lead to further spaces and further supports being made available to more people who need them. In terms of the new measures that were brought forward, the Ministers, Deputies O'Gorman and Donnelly have led on increases in the funding for disability services in recent years. In conclusion, let me continue to acknowledge the need to do more to support those with additional needs and disabilities and those who provide supports to them but I would make the case to the Dáil for the funding that is there and the difference that it genuinely does make.

Under the Constitution, the total number of Members of this House has to be at least one per 30,000 of the population. The Economic and Social Research Institute is forecasting that by the year 2040, Ireland's population will have grown by more than 900,000 based on current numbers. The CSO predicts a highest growth scenario over the next 30 years of double that number, which would put Ireland's population at more than 7 million in 2057. That would mean that the number of TDs would have to increase from the current total of 160 to almost 240. This Chamber would not be able to accommodate that number of Deputies. We would have to build a new Chamber to cater for the increased number of TDs, provide additional offices as well as funding for all of the associated parliamentary and support staff for each elected Member, the cost of which would be hundreds of millions of euro.

Recently the keynote speaker at the Clifden Arts Festival, the former Attorney General, Minister for Justice and Tánaiste, Senator Michael McDowell, made a very interesting point. He noted that if the United Kingdom used the same criteria to determine the number of MPs in its Parliament, namely one MP to every 30,000 people, then instead of the current 650 members of parliament, the House of Commons would have 2,400 members. The current figure of 650 members in the UK Parliament has remained constant for almost half a century, with little increase in the past ten years. Spain, Germany, France and the Netherlands have an even lower proportion of members of parliament to population than the UK. So too has Italy, which held a constitutional referendum in 2020 that resulted in a reduction in the number of members of both of its houses. This was passed by a 70% majority, something that I could easily see being repeated in Ireland if we had a referendum to amend our Constitution.

I am not going to suggest what the number of TDs should be limited to. That question should be handed over to the Electoral Commission to examine and I ask all Members to support this. Will the Minister, his party and their partners in government agree to ask the Electoral Commission to look into the idea of placing a cap on the number of TDs and putting this to a referendum?

I am sure that regardless of the size of any future Dáil, the Deputy still anticipates and wants to play a very lively role within it and the question he poses this morning reminds me why it is very likely that he will do so. As he may be aware, this is something that An Coimisiún Toghcháin has indicated a willingness to consider. In a report published in August 2023, the commission outlined that in advance of the next commission, it wants to commence what it has described as a "national conversation" - I am sure many Members of this Dáil will want to participate in that, including the Deputy - on whether Dáil Éireann should continue to grow to match the increase in population . If that were to happen in the way that he described, the Dáil would grow by around two TDs per year over the next number of years.

As I answer the question, it is important not to lose sight of something that is very positive. The reason we are seeing a growth in the size of the Dáil is that we are a growing country with a growing population. There are more people living here who deserve and require more representation. That is very positive and that can be at the heart of our prosperity and growth in the years ahead. My own view is that the growth in population will continue to require the level of representation that our own Dáil provides at the moment. I would be reluctant to put any cap on that at the moment. I assure the Deputy Grealish Leader's Questions and engagements like this are hard enough but if I came in here and saw the Visitor's Gallery full of TDs as well, I am sure it would make them even more demanding. If that is something we have to contend with as a consequence of our country continuing to grow, that would be a good thing. I will be interested to see what An Comisiún Toghcháin recommends. I would not like to see unlimited growth but, on the other hand, the level of representation that we have within our country at the moment does broadly work and I would not like to see any sudden change in that regard.

Over the past number of years, the Government has put several referendums to the people, mostly recently and notably the 39th and 40th amendments that were defeated earlier this year. The latest referendums were badly thought out and impossible to clearly explain. The resounding "No" vote made it clear that the people are not prepared to alter the Constitution without good reason. A proposal to cap the number of TDs, bringing Ireland's Parliament into line with other EU countries, is a question that the people should have the opportunity to decide. It is something that should be explored further by the Electoral Commission. I ask the Minister to give a commitment to at least explore this matter further. It is a question that should be put to the people. If we are going to see our Parliament grow up to 240 Members by 2050, that is going to put a huge strain on the Oireachtas. This Chamber will become redundant. We could be talking about hundreds of millions of euro to build a new Chamber and to provide support staff. It is important that we have a debate on this in the new Dáil. If I am elected, I will keep pushing it. If not, maybe somebody else will but the question should be put to the people in a referendum. Let the people decide how many Members should be in this House, not us in this House.

In the various referenda that the Deputy referred to, the people have shown care in making big changes to our Constitution. They have, at other times, shown a commitment to and support for how the Oireachtas currently represents them. In the Deputy's constituency, and in all of our constituencies, we frequently have to explain the work that we do, make the case for the work that we do and for the time we spend here in the Dáil and in the committees of the Oireachtas. I would take care with any changes that weaken the link between constituents and the politicians that serve them because, by and large, it is a balance that we have got right within our country. As I said earlier, our Electoral Commission is looking into this matter. I am sure it plans to publish a paper or to publish some interventions in this regard in the time ahead and I have no doubt they will prompt, and be a catalyst for, the discussion the Deputy is looking for.

In many parts of our country, infrastructure is greatly lacking, leaving many towns and villages dying a death and nowhere is this more evident than in west Cork. A complete lack of investment by successive Governments has left two bypasses promised to the people of Bandon unfinished, one bypass in Inishannon, not only unfinished but not even started, and a promised bypass for Bantry not even started. Not one passing bay has been built in decades, limiting car drivers to tractor and lorry pace on all of the main roads in west Cork.

Our great town of Bantry in west Cork was flooded once again two weeks ago because a flood-relief scheme promised for 30 years remains undone. However, today I want to concentrate on the lack of investment in wastewater treatment plants by Uisce Éireann. Shannonvale in Clonakilty has raw sewage bursting out of an outdated wastewater treatment system onto what is supposed to be a children's play park which is now blocked off. The stinking substance leeches into the Argideen river close to the intake pipe for Clonakilty drinking water. This has been going on for 27 years.

Heading west to Rosscarbery, the famous Warren Beach was closed to the public this year because bacteria were found in the bathing water. People could clearly see suspended solids in the water, all due to the wastewater treatment tank in need of upgrading. We can travel down the road to Dunmanway where an outdated wastewater treatment plant had a continuous discharge of sewage into the Bandon river during the summer. This outdated treatment plant is at capacity thus preventing growth in a thriving town. All development has been stopped in the town and for how many years ahead we do not know. Heading west to Ballydehob, an overloaded outdated wastewater treatment tank pours raw sewage directly into the estuary. This tank has failed the test for several emission level values every year since 2015 and nothing has been done. Farther west, Goleen also has an outdated wastewater treatment plant. In 1999 when the council was still in charge, it was shown to have raw sewage entering the local waters from the tank. Even though it needed to be addressed at the time, nothing has happened since.

During the summer I attended numerous public meetings in these towns and there is huge anger. We have met representatives of Uisce Éireann and each time we are told it may or may not be in its plans for 2025 to 2029 while all these plants keep pouring raw sewage into the sea. All this time, the EPA is not to be found anywhere. I recently called on the EPA to furnish me with the report from Shannonvale for 27 years, only to be given a report going back a few months, leading me to ask the question: what is it hiding? What will we tell these communities when we canvass them in the general election campaign? Rosscarbery has been waiting for ten years, Dunmanway 15 years, Ballydehob 20 years, Goleen 25 years and Shannonvale 27 years for proper wastewater treatment plants. Can we tell them that the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, will personally intervene with Uisce Éireann? It cannot be left to hide behind this nonsense. I hear that scientific evidence is needed. Raw sewage out of a wastewater treatment plant is simply raw sewage. I ask the Minister to step in and set up a task force, led by him, which within six months will give clear dates for the start and completion of these urgent projects in west Cork.

I want to say directly to the people in those towns and communities that are affected by the issues the Deputy has referred to that I am not in a position to come into the Dáil today and give a very specific answer on the status of wastewater treatment plants for different towns and villages within our country. If he had given me an indication that he was going to raise these specific towns beforehand, I could have done that. However, he knows it is very difficult for anybody to come in here today and be able to directly answer questions regarding specific projects for very specific towns which are valued by him and by all who represent that constituency.

What I can say generally on the issue he raised is that in budget 2025 when the Minister, Deputy Chambers, and I were making decisions regarding the allocation of a further €3 billion that has been generated by the sale of shares in banks that our country has owned for some time, we have highlighted that further funding to be made available to Irish Water is a top priority for that money. We are doing that because we recognise the need for further investment in our water, further investment in wastewater treatment plants that can make a difference to the quality of life of those whom Deputy Collins represents and whose concerns he is raising here today and also with regard to the provision of homes in those areas. We accept that more needs to be done in that area while also saying that Irish Water is making important and valuable changes in the quality of wastewater treatment plants within our country.

I can give the commitment here today, as has been outlined in the budget, that further funding will be made available for that area. On foot of the issue that has been raised by Deputy Collins, of course, I will certainly pass on to the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, the issue that has been raised and how we can respond back to those lovely and important parts of Deputy Collins's community getting the investment they need.

I thank the Minister. What is wrong with Uisce Éireann? The Minister is saying the Government is pouring money in it. Even if it was moving at a snail's pace, some of these towns would have their wastewater treatment plants built, but it is not even moving at that pace. It cannot be money as in some of the towns I mentioned, we have offered co-funding to speed up the process and get the plants built but it makes no difference. For far too long, this Government has pointed the finger of blame at farmers as the culprits for the contamination of our waters. All the powers that be have been watching every move they have made when we now know who the main culprit for contaminating our clean waters, and that is the State through Uisce Éireann, aided and abetted by the EPA.

The Minister said I did not furnish him with the information in advance and I accept that I did not. On behalf of the people of west Cork, I ask him to personally intervene. He said he would speak to the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, and I appreciate that and anything at all that will help to bring this up along the line. We need to set up a task force to report in six months - not one where the can is kicked down the road and there is no answer. I cannot have parents telling me their children drank raw sewage from these tanks and became seriously ill. We need action in west Cork now and not kick the can down the road.

That is not a recipe for progress or a recipe for a solution. I want to offer my full support to the work that Uisce Éireann does. While we all remember the difficulty involved in setting up that organisation, it is only through a unitary water authority like that body that we will be able to put in place the investment at scale that is needed to ensure that Ireland has safe water in the quantity that we will need in the years ahead. I reiterate what I said a moment ago. I think the Deputy does the issue a great disservice in referring to the organisation, which is best placed to provide the solution he is looking for, as in some way being the culprit.