Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 25 Jun 2024

We will now take Leaders' Questions under Standing Order 36 but just before we came into the House we heard the sad news that the legendary, iconic figure Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh has died. Leaders will want to avail of an opportunity to pay tribute to him so we will add a minute to each leader's slot for that purpose.

I know everybody in the House wants to extend to his family our deepest sympathy. He is somebody who touched the lives of people the length and breadth of this country. He was not just the voice of the Gaelic Athletic Association; he epitomised the very spirit of that organisation. His love for the Irish language was unparalleled. In later life we all knew him to be a fantastic campaigner for active retired people and there is no doubt about it, he was active right up to the end.

As the Ceann Comhairle has said, I extend our deepest sympathy to the family, friends and loved ones of Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh, a man who it is fair to say can only be described as a legend of Irish life. He was the voice of the GAA and what a tonal voice he had. His voice will forever be associated with long, hot summer afternoons and the hopes and expectations of so many. He was a very proud Kerryman, an ambassador of the kingdom but also of everything that is great about being Irish. We are so sorry to hear of his passing. He lived to a good age and certainly was the most active of the active retired. It is always the finality of a person's passing and death that stops us all in our tracks. I know people across Ireland and across the world will now lament the passing of a very great Irishman, but also record the great gift he was to all of us. We extend our sympathies. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam dílis.

People across the country are reeling at the news of a vicious, brutal assault on a young woman on the streets of Limerick city. It was an attack committed by a member of the Defence Forces. It was filmed, posted on social media and bragged about. It was a harrowing assault that is the worst nightmare of every woman in this country. The victim of this assault, Natasha O'Brien, came forward and sought justice. In good faith, she put herself in the hands of the State. She relived the distress of her assault in statements to An Garda and in court. She believed in justice. She wanted to ensure that her assailant would not be free to walk the streets again and would not pose a danger to other women. Shockingly, the assailant was handed down a three-year suspended sentence. Shockingly, he is free to walk the streets again. Shockingly, the Defence Forces described him as exemplary, courteous, professional and disciplined as a soldier. Natasha asked the question of what message this sends to perpetrators, because while Cathal Crotty is now free to go about his life, she feels trapped in the traumatic aftermath of what was an appalling crime. She now tries to pick up the pieces and rebuild her life. Natasha is here with us in the Public Gallery this afternoon, so the Taoiseach knows.

Women, girls and indeed everyone in our society are entitled to be safe and protected, whether walking the streets or in our own homes. This should go without saying in 2024. It should be a bare minimum. It is the most basic freedom that women and girls should be able to take for granted, but we cannot. As shocking as it is, women know that this case is not a stand-alone case. This is not an aberration or something that happened in splendid isolation. This is a symptom of an epidemic in our society. It is a case which sadly has parallels and echoes throughout the courtrooms and the experiences and stories that women and girls carry with us throughout our lives. They are experiences of not feeling safe, not being safe, and not being able to have confidence that the system will keep you safe.

Women are now again making our message heard loud and clear that enough is enough. Women have now had enough. The reality is that, in modern Ireland, violence against women and girls remains far too common. Just last week, the Women's Aid report recorded a record number of reports of gender-based violence, with more than 40,000 disclosures of abuse in 2023. That is the highest in its 50-year history. As a society, we cannot accept anything other than zero tolerance for this appalling violence, whether on the street, in relationships or in families. There has to be zero tolerance for the culture that facilitates this violence. There is an epidemic of violence against women and a culture that facilitates it. Cathal Crotty was not on his own when he attacked Natasha. He had male friends with him at the time. They failed to intervene. Thankfully, another man did. Let me say that. Thanks to him.

There has to be zero tolerance for violence against women in our Defence Forces. Yesterday, the tribunal of inquiry into abuse, violence and harassment of the Women of Honour opened. That tribunal came about because the women affected took a stand against the Defence Forces, yet it seems this culture continues. We have a judicial system, Defence Forces, a political system and a society that is failing to confront violence against women and that fails us all. We need urgent action to address this epidemic of violence against women across society so that there is truly zero tolerance for such crimes.

As I told the Taoiseach, I met Natasha earlier. She feels so betrayed and let down. In her own words, everything about this needs to change. I ask Deputy Harris, as Taoiseach and leader of Government, what is going to change and when.

I thank the Ceann Comhairle. At his invitation, I want to begin by acknowledging the passing of Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh. It is with the heaviest of hearts that I, like people across this country, today learned of his death. The word "legend" gets used too often in Ireland but, for Mícheál, it is a word that is almost not good enough. His voice, his colour, his excitement, his love of sport and his turn of phrase were often as exhilarating as the action he was describing on the pitch as the audience held its breath for what Mícheál would say next. He also had a humour you simply could not learn: “Teddy McCarthy to Mick McCarthy, no relation, Mick McCarthy back to Teddy McCarthy, still no relation.” For a generation of the Irish diaspora, Mícheál was also a treasured link. He was a voice of home as they listened to GAA across the world. In person, he was always a gentleman to his fingertips and he filled a room with a quiet and dignified aura. I join with Members across this House and people across this country in saying may he rest in peace.

There are often moments in this House when Deputy McDonald and I do not agree. On this, I agree with her 100%. This is an issue on which I will work with her, with everyone across this House and across Irish society and with the Minister for Justice to get to where we need to get - we clearly are not there in Ireland - in terms of a zero-tolerance approach to domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. Deputy McDonald is right, and I have called this out before. There is an epidemic in this country when it comes to gender-based violence. Our programme for Government calls that out too. I want the Deputy and, more importantly, women across this country to know that I am no less disgusted than anyone else in Ireland in relation to this situation. There is a lot that I would like to say about court cases. As the Ceann Comhairle knows, based on the rules of this House and the separation of powers, I am constrained in what I can say, but I will say this. It is possible that the legal process may not be finished in this individual case. It is a statement of fact in a broad sense that it is open to the DPP to appeal any sentence. I believe there is a time period in which that can happen.

I thank Natasha O'Brien for joining us in the Gallery today. I do want to meet with you. I do need to wait for the window of legal proceedings to close, but I will meet you, as will the Minister for Justice, because we want to hear from you and we want to work with you. You have shown incredible bravery in speaking up and speaking out. The fact that you were horrifically attacked at a time when you yourself were standing up against homophobia is really a testament to your character and adds to the sense of brutality you encountered.

I also say this. When it comes to our Defence Forces, I am very proud of many of the men and women who serve in our Defence Forces. We all are. They serve with distinction at home and abroad. We all agree with that across this House, but we are all aware that the Defence Forces can be brought into disrepute by the actions of a small number. It also runs the risk of being brought into disrepute by the inaction of others. There is a very simple question to which we must know the answer: how many other people are in the Defence Forces today who have a criminal conviction? I want to know that answer, as does the Tánaiste. The Tánaiste has asked for a report on the matter. I believe the report is being compiled by the Chief of Staff and will be provided today. The regulations are very clear about what should happen in relation to the Defence Forces. Every single person in this country needs to know that those regulations are followed and that they are applied. I also think there are very serious issues relating to the regulation about a liaison officer attending the court. The Deputy asked me what needs to change, and I think that needs to be seriously reviewed.

I sincerely think the Minister, Deputy McEntee, has placed a major focus on domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. She has worked with many of the organisations, including Women’s Aid and others, which the Deputy referenced. They, too, acknowledge the level of work. I can list a number of the positive things that have happened, such as the establishment of Cuan, the first ever statutory agency with statutory responsibility for co-ordinating and implementing our zero-tolerance plan. I also refer to the legislation we have passed together here in this House, including the maximum sentence for assault causing harm being increased from five years to ten years. There was the publication of the Family Courts Bill, the Sex Offenders (Amendment) Act 2023, and stand-alone offences for stalking and non-fatal strangulation. There was the sexual violence survey published by the CSO. There has been a range of very high-impact campaigns to try to bring about that cultural change, to which the Deputy quite rightly referred, in terms of the actions and inactions of men when they witness this sort of behaviour.

All of that is true. All of that is work that I am pleased has taken place. As an Oireachtas and as a people we should be pleased it has taken place, but none of that takes away from what happened to Natasha O'Brien. None of that takes away from what we have witnessed in our country in recent days. I want to assure the Deputy and, more importantly, I want to respectfully assure the women of Ireland that zero tolerance is exactly where we need to get to and exactly where we will work with you and others to make sure we arrive at that destination.

I am pleased to hear that the Taoiseach is willing to work with all of us because Natasha said to me that the experience of the courtroom was more traumatic for her than even the attack itself. I find that a shocking scenario for a young woman in any era but in a time of enlightenment when we all agree that we have an epidemic of violence against women and that we have to adopt a zero-tolerance approach, this is the lived experience of this woman. She said to me that the system, if I can paraphrase, is ass about face and that the concern for the victim simply is not there. There clearly is a problem within our system when this young woman is told to be grateful for the fact that there was a guilty plea. Really? Two to take her down, two to knock her out - concussed, broken nose, a potential brain bleed and the rug pulled from under her. There was the trauma of that - her friend watching on, others finding this to be a bit of craic, filming it and putting it on social media and this guy gets a suspended sentence. Really?

This is so profound it requires immediate action by all of us. By the way, there are still nine counties with no domestic violence shelters. The Taoiseach knows this. Some progress has been made but let us not delude ourselves. We are not in a good place in this scenario. The question to the Taoiseach in respect of what he described in the Defence Forces - we know there is at least one other case where somebody got a slap on the wrist and got sent off on their way.

There absolutely is. It is one I take very seriously. It is a responsibility I do not shirk from at all. To touch on some of the issues the Deputy raised, in the case of an enlisted member of the Defence Forces, I am told that, following a conviction where imprisonment or a suspended sentence is awarded or an appeal has been heard or not submitted, the process for discharge commences upon receipt by military authorities of the certificate of conviction. What does that mean? We need to start speaking in plain English. If you have a criminal conviction, you have no right to be in our Defence Forces - plain and simple. We need to know how many people in the Defence Forces have criminal convictions and when they are leaving. That is not too much for me, as Head of Government, to ask, nor is too much for the Tánaiste, as Minister for Defence, to ask. I acknowledge the excellent work by the Tánaiste in actions to bring about a cultural change in the Defence Forces, including the establishment of the tribunal that the Deputy quite rightly referenced.

On the criminal justice aspect, section 2 of the Criminal Justice Act 1993 provides an important safeguard under which the DPP may appeal to the Court of Appeal to have a sentence reviewed if it appears the sentence imposed in a case is, in law, unduly lenient. Nobody should in any, way, shape or form suggest that Natasha should be grateful or have any sort of gratitude for coming forward and seeking justice. Absolutely not. A number of changes are under way in relation to judicial training, sentencing guidelines and preliminary trial hearings. The Deputy is right, however. Sometimes we think we have come very far as a country and then something like this pops up and we realise we have not come nearly as far as we think. We have a lot more work to do in this area, and our work continues.

I also want to mark the death of a legend - Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh. His magical voice expertly evoked all the drama and passion of the GAA for decades. He devoted a lifetime to the promotion of the GAA and the Irish language. He did this in a manner that beguiled and transfixed a nation. He will be missed but forever remembered.

I will also take this opportunity to wish the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath, and the Minister of State, Deputy Jack Chambers, the very best in their new positions.

I warmly welcome Natasha O'Brien to the Gallery. I am not alone in being in complete awe of your bravery and strength and in being extraordinarily grateful to you for your leadership.

Every time a woman is attacked we say "Never again". Every time a woman is brutally killed we say "Never again". Every time a woman is retraumatised by our legal system we say "Never again". Every time an abuser walks free from court with a slap on the wrist we say "Never again". However, it always happens again. Do those words mean anything to State institutions? The women of Ireland have been repeating them for decades. There is no end in sight. Right now, in tens of thousands of homes all over the country, women are being brutalised. Last week, Women's Aid revealed that it had received 40,000 reports of abuse in 2023. That is a 20% increase on 2022 and the highest number in the 50-year history of Women's Aid. Violence against women is an epidemic. It frequently happens in plain sight.

Natasha O'Brien was walking home with her friend. All she was doing was existing in a public space. Cathal Crotty decided to beat her to a pulp while his friends stood there and watched. As Natasha lay unconscious on the ground and Crotty walked away, he did not display any remorse. It was the opposite in fact. It seemed he felt proud. "Two to put her down. Two to put her out", he bragged on social media. We can imagine how he felt when he walked free from court last week. What did Natasha feel? She felt ignored, defeated and devastated because a man's career was deemed more important than women's safety.

How many more times will we say "Never again"? How many more women will have to be attacked? How many more protests will we have to attend? What will it take for women's safety to be prioritised? Natasha O'Brien's courage and eloquence has been inspiring, but why is it she has to fight so hard to try to get a crumb of justice? Why is it that women have to bare our souls? Why is it that we have to lead public protests before there is any action or before abusers face any consequences? I put it to the Taoiseach that Natasha and so many other women out there are fed up of hearing "Never again". They are fed up hearing platitudes from politicians and they are fed up hearing promises of reform. What they want are answers as to why the system keeps failing them and action to stop it from happening again.

I understand and respect the separation of powers, but there are questions here for the Judicial Council. The council was set up in 2019 and tasked with issuing sentencing guidelines. Five years later and we are still waiting for any guidelines to be issued. Has the Taoiseach received an explanation for this inordinate delay? With so many victims of crime feeling betrayed and failed by the justice system, will he consider establishing an ombudsman for victims of crime? In other words, a single statutory agency tasked with assisting victims of crime and advocating for them.

I thank Deputy Cairns for quite rightly raising this issue. I also thank her for her words in relation to the Minister, Deputy McGrath - who I join her in congratulating - and the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers.

I want the Deputy to know that we do not just say, "Never again". Never have I uttered those words. What we need to do is to adopt a zero-tolerance approach in Ireland when violence does occur. Violence and attacks and brutality will happen. How our systems respond, how they are victim-centred, how they do not let down the victim, how they should never retraumatise the victim and how they should deal with the perpetrators have to be our national obsession now. I share the Deputy's view. We should absolutely call this out for what it is: it is an epidemic. We live in a country where there is an epidemic. Even in this place, when you try to discuss and raise some of these issues, all sorts of labels get attached in relation to wokery and everything else. This is an extraordinarily serious epidemic. We should all call it out every time when we see misogyny existing, including in public policy debates that happen in this Chamber and the other Chamber, which, in my view, happens on an all too frequent basis.

I very much take the point about the Women's Aid report and the figures we discussed in this House last week. We should, are due and I hope we are going to have a debate, as I agreed to last week, in respect of that report. I would point out, though, that while the numbers are extraordinarily stark, part of it is that we are encouraging more people to come forward to speak up and speak out because we know we live in a society where for far too long things have remained behind closed doors. We need to have a situation where we are always trying to support people in coming forward and seeking help and access. However, the figures are an extraordinarily stark wake-up call for everybody in every part of Ireland.

I am not going to read out a long list of things to run down the clock, but I do believe that many actions have been taken that, genuinely, are positive steps forward. The fact that we now have a single statutory agency called Cuan with legal responsibility in this area for the first time in the history of our State and that we passed the relevant legislation through these Houses is not unimportant. The fact that we have seen more safe houses, in addition to the more traditional model of refuge beds, open across the country is not insignificant. The fact is that we have also introduced a number of pieces of legislation around stalking and non-fatal strangulation. We have reformed things in respect of the family courts and we have doubled the sentencing in relation to assault causing harm, which is the most frequent crime against someone experiencing domestic or gender-based violence.

We do have the Judicial Council, which is absolutely charged with producing sentencing guidelines and with facilitating judicial training. These are two issues that the Minister for Justice is extraordinarily eager to see progress being made on, as am I. My understanding is that the first set of sentencing guidelines is likely to be in the area of domestic violence. We will be seeking an update in terms of a timeline for these.

However, my fear is that in reviewing it, the DPP will discover that this sentence is not unusually lenient at all and that men routinely beat women to a pulp and walk free from court. Natasha is now known and admired across the country, but she never wanted to be in this position and she should not be. We are familiar with the names of other women too: Elaine O'Hara, Jennie Poole, Nadine Lott, Ashling Murphy, Bruna Fonseca, Anna Mooney and so many more. How many taoisigh have stood there before and spoken about zero tolerance and promised change? How many more women's names will we learn before any meaningful action is taken? How many more taoisigh will stand there?

Tackling gender-based violence is not easy, but an easy starting point should be victims feeling supported by the justice system. If the Taoiseach could respond to what I asked him in my opening contribution in his next reply, that would be really useful. He referred to the sentencing guidelines but said we have them. We do not have them. Can we find out what the delay is? Can we get clarity on the weight of victim impact statements in terms of sentencing, because it is difficult to see how this one was weighed in? We also need to know that perpetrators of abuse are not welcome in our Defence Forces. What is the Taoiseach going to do to ensure that these things happen?

I am absolutely furious about what has happened in this country - just to be very clear. There is nobody in this House more disgusted than anybody else.

Nobody. I am not just a Taoiseach. I am a father. I am a son. I am a husband. Everybody wants to live in a country with zero tolerance, and nobody suggests zero tolerance is some sort of slogan or platitude. Zero tolerance is the cultural change we need to bring about in this country. It requires every single person in this place, in the Judiciary, in the Defence Forces, in our public services, in our homes and in our schools to work to bring it about.

I am extremely proud of the work of the Minister for Justice, a Minister who has applied herself to this more than any Minister that has gone before her. I have watched as she has done that. She is not suggesting, I am not suggesting and nobody here is suggesting - Natasha is certainly not suggesting - that we are anywhere near where we need to be as a country. We are nowhere near it, but the work is under way. I will never, ever regret talking about zero tolerance, because it is only when politicians, including men, start demanding zero tolerance that we will bring about the change.

I have told Deputy Cairns very clearly that we are going to seek an update on the sentencing guidelines. It is urgent that we get them in place. I share that view, as does the Minister.

In relation to the Defence Forces, I have also very clearly said on the record of this House that it is utterly unacceptable that I have to stand here as Taoiseach of this country and I cannot answer the question of how many people with criminal convictions are in the Defence Forces today. That is not acceptable to me. It is not acceptable to the Government. It should not be acceptable to anyone in this House. The Chief of Staff will provide the Tánaiste with a report answering that question. If you are convicted of a criminal offence in the Defence Forces, you should get out of it.

At the outset, I join my colleagues in passing my condolences to the family of Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh. He was born in Dingle in 1930. He was a man who was regarded as a hero of the country. I have family abroad who believe his voice is synonymous with home and all that is good about Ireland. I wish to pay my deepest respects on behalf of the people of Wexford, whom I represent, to his wife Helena and his family. Without a shadow of a doubt, he will be fondly remembered. He was often copied but never equalled. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam dílis.

I also welcome Natasha O'Brien. I say that with great sadness. This is probably her first visit to Dáil Éireann. We can only commend her on being brave enough to come out on behalf of every victim of violence, not just women but all victims. I thank her.

I want to bring to the Taoiseach's attention today the story of John, who gave us his experience as a landlord on "Liveline" yesterday. Essentially, John's story is one of extreme unfairness. He and his family are the victims of a rogue tenant, to whom he rented his one and only rental property in January 2023. By November 2023 the tenant had stopped paying rent and refused the landlord any access to his own property. John started the process of ending the tenancy, as the tenant was not responding to any form of contact. There are six steps to be carried out, as depicted on the Residential Tenancies Board, RTB, website, none of which the tenant engaged in. During the waiting period for a hearing date for the dispute resolution process, John discovered that not only did the tenant owe him up to €14,000 in rent arrears, but they were subletting his property on the Airbnb website in recent months. Airbnb refused to engage with John, as he was not the host customer. He is very aggrieved at this, as one can imagine that it is rubbing salt into the wound of a €14,000 debt.

John did everything by the book and was eventually at the stage where he could apply to the RTB for a hearing date, which took six months. When the rogue tenant turned up, they offered no mitigating factors. The bottom line is that John followed the entire legal process. He engaged a letting agent who was a small business owner, which as a landlord, he endorsed. He paid his tax. He did everything by the book. He put the lease through the RTB and he paid for that process. Yet the tenant, who offered no mitigation as to why they stopped paying rent, gained a profit from airing the same property on Airbnb, with – I am sure - no income tax paid to Revenue, and probably no follow-up by Revenue.

In this instance the RTB says that it takes 31 weeks for the average process to be undertaken. Having gone through the process and the determination that the eviction orders were all correct, it was then appealed even though no mitigating factors had been advanced by the tenant. That process ended seven weeks ago and no determination order has yet been received by the landlord. The tenant is still in situ. The landlord is told that when the determination order is received, the tenant will be given two weeks' notice to vacate the property. If the tenant does not vacate, John's only recourse will be to go to the courts to have the order enforced. What I am saying is that the RTB is dysfunctional and no longer fit for purpose. We have a property that should be available to renters. The landlord in his own testimony states that once he retrieves his property, he will sell it and no longer be a landlord. We are carrying a disservice through the form of an RTB that is absolutely not fit for purpose. It is not the first time this has been said in the House. Will the Taoiseach tell us what he is going to do about it?

I thank Deputy Murphy. At the outset, I want to say I am sorry for getting a bit passionate in the last answer, but I think everybody in the House is just so angered. I want to thank Deputy Cairns for raising the important issue.

I thank Deputy Murphy for highlighting this issue relating to the RTB. I know she is highlighting a broader issue but if she wants to send to my office the details of the case, as an example of some of what she describes as the dysfunctionality being experienced by people using the RTB, I will be very happy to take a look at it and ask the Minister for housing to take a look at it. It is very important when it comes to the rental market that we have a regulated market and an organisation that can oversee it. This is the job of the RTB. Its job is to set out the rules to tenants and landlords. Often in the House landlords can be demonised. It is hard to have a rental market without them. It is important that landlords know that if they experience a rogue tenant, there is cause for recourse which is administered efficiently and effectively.

I do not want to stray too far into the specific case because I do not know enough about it, and nor would it be appropriate for me to do so. I believe there is clarity on the rules and structures of the RTB. Deputy Murphy seems to have an experience that suggests they are not applied or take far too long. If she wants to send on those examples to me, I will be very happy to ask the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, to have a look at them.

From a wider point of view, the Government is carrying out a review of the rental market because we are eager to keep landlords in the market, particularly small landlords without whose properties we would see the property supply further constrained. I am happy to take a look at the situation.

I suggest respectfully that if the Taoiseach needs examples, he should undertake a review of the RTB. Believe you me, I could extend a level of examples. This is not the first time I have mentioned on the floor of the House that the RTB is no longer fit for purpose. It is the umpteenth time.

Why are we running the country through the media? Why is Natasha O'Brien here today to give us an example of how the system does not work? Why do we wait for "Prime Time" to bring to the fore things that the Government consistently buries its head in the sand about? The Government denied there was any such thing as go-away money. It refused to investigate it until "Prime Time" gave it the evidence. It is the same in Straffan, County Kildare, where there were numerous reports to the Department of agriculture. It seems that all and its mother knew the cruelty being carried out at Shannonside Foods. A week after "Prime Time" exposed it, the slaughterhouse and abattoir were closed down.

We cannot continue to run the country based on what the media tells us. The people in this House stand up frequently and advise the Government of the issues that need to be dealt with. It is the same with our CAMHS system, I regret to say. Numerous times I have mentioned that we have a referral issue in CAMHS in south Wexford. The Minister continues to tell me there is no waiting list. The issue is that it is not accepting patients. The head burying has to stop. I ask the Taoiseach, with all due respect, to start to recognise the issues represented by the Deputies who represent their people and do not wait for "Prime Time" or "Liveline" or Natasha to bring it to our attention, with all due respect.

I will do my best. First, I remind Deputy Murphy that I too am a Deputy. I have been elected by the people of Wicklow on three occasions and I am grateful for that. I do not need the media or anyone else, with the greatest respect to them, to let me know what the issues in my community are, and neither does anybody on the Government benches. The constant suggestion that those outside political parties are more in touch will be tested in due course with the electorate. We will see how we all get on.

We take these issues extremely seriously. The RTB is seeing its workload increase. It has 47,745 annual registrations. As a result, the Government needs to and is increasing the resources available to the RTB to ensure it can continue to manage the situation effectively and efficiently. I am happy to hear about the example - I say that to be helpful - because it is often useful to be able to put a real-life example to the system. I am happy to take it from the Deputy.

The Deputy referred to a range of other issues, including CAMHS. I am very happy to take any follow-up details from her. I know how important access to CAMHS is. The Minister of State, Deputy Butler, will shortly bring new mental health legislation before the House.

I am glad to get an opportunity to say a few words about the late, great Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh. He was a great Kerryman who had a unique voice and created excitement in all the games he commentated on. It was better to listen when he commentated on the radio than to watch the game on the television because there was more drama. He created excitement and he knew so much about hurling and football, the players who were playing, the rules and so forth. He was a powerhouse of a man. We send our condolences to his wife Helena and his family, his extended family in Dingle and all his friends in Kerry, around the country and across the whole world. He was a powerful man.

I will also say a word about Deputy Michael McGrath who is departing for Europe. It is Europe's gain and our loss that he is leaving this Chamber because we all depended and relied on him so much.

I sympathise with Natasha O'Brien, who had to come here today, on the horrible treatment she has been receiving.

I raise again issues about people who try to provide a home for themselves, which is a basic thing. Many of those who try to get planning permission are being refused because there is a designation in Kerry - I am sure it is also in place around the country - with regard to areas designated as being under significant urban-generated pressure. It is denying people from building on an acre or two close to where they were bred, born and reared. It is also designed to stop people coming out from towns and cities. It is being applied 4 or 5 miles outside Killorglin and Killarney. A girl who wants to build beside her father and mother 7 miles east of Killarney will not get permission to do so even though she got a site only half a mile from where she was born and reared. The only people who get it - we are glad they do - are farmers' sons and daughters. Local people are being denied by this rule. We do not begrudge the sons and daughters of farmers because we need them to have a house, in the same way as anyone else.

I will mention another issue that I have raised several times before. If you live alongside a national primary road and you want to build a new house that comes out using an existing entrance or exit, permission will be refused forthwith. It is the same for national secondary roads. In County Kerry, we have 98 km of national primary roads and 337 km of national secondary roads. I believe we have more than many other counties. The Planning Regulator has now come back to Kerry County Council asking the elected members in the Kenmare electoral area to reduce the amount of land they have proposed to zone as residential in south Kerry in the towns of Kenmare, Sneem, Waterville, Cahersiveen, Valentia, Glenbeigh and Killorglin.

I believe the Planning Regulator is wrong, as if there is no competition in the market and lesser amounts of lands are zoned available, it will mean certain landowners will have a monopoly and can drive up the cost of a site or sites. These things have to be rectified.

We are talking of affordable homes. If the word "affordable" was a concrete block, it would build a building as tall as the Empire State Building in America, because the word has been mentioned so often. These people have a site they get from their parents or locally. It is affordable and gives them a start. We have to do something to give them a chance. The blockage at present is hurting so many sons and daughters who want to get going.

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. I very much enjoyed his tribute to Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh. The idea that listening to the match on the radio was more enjoyable than watching it on the television probably captures the essence of many people's experience and memory.

Everybody or certainly most people in this House want to see a balanced approach to rural housing. The Deputy is pointing to people who are doing their best to put a roof over the head of their family, son or daughter and provide for themselves. We need a situation where people are facilitated to build on their own land while remaining consistent with national spatial planning policy and providing access to services, sewers and other important facilities.

The Deputy listed a number of places in his constituency. I understand the draft ministerial direction for the Kenmare municipal district local area plan was put out to public consultation from 6 June to 20 June. In other words, it has just closed. The chief executive will now review the submission and report to the Office of the Planning Regulator. This has to be done within four weeks of 20 June. The Office of the Planning Regulator then considers the chief executive's report and has to report back to the Minister within three weeks. The Minister then has six weeks to issue a final decision, having received the reports from the chief executive of the council and the Planning Regulator. This kind of activity should now be seen as a routine part of our planning processes. Four local area directions have issued so far this year, with final directions issued for Letterkenny, Castlebar and Athenry. I am sure the Deputy would not ask me to intervene in that ongoing process because it has just gone out to public consultation and has some way to go.

I hear what the Deputy is saying on the Office of the Planning Regulator. We need to remember how we got there. The office was established in 2019 on foot of recommendations made by the Tribunal to Inquire into Certain Planning Matters and Payments, called the Mahon tribunal. Its role is to ensure the local authorities and An Bord Pleanála support and implement national planning policy. It also has a role in planning research, training and public awareness to promote public engagement on the planning process.

Updated rural housing guidelines are currently being prepared by the Department of housing and will expand on existing policy in the national planning framework which relates to rural housing. We will also have later this year new housing targets and a national planning framework, which will begin to give us a level of granular detail as to what that means for County Kerry or any other county in Ireland. That might be useful in addressing some of the issues the Deputy raises.

I thank the Taoiseach very much for his reply but I ask again if he will do something about the clause on significant urban generated pressure that is denying so many people planning permission. There people are asking for nothing only fair play and they are not getting it at present. They will build the house, pay for it and create employment. They will do all that themselves.

We have asked the question about national roads several times. That rule was implemented in 2012 and has created havoc for many people who want to come out an existing entrance - not create a new entrance - and to come out a safe entrance. A planner told me this morning that a person who wants to build in an area under this designation need not bother applying as there is no hope in the world.

In relation to the zoning, I do not see any need for zoning land at all around towns or villages. Let the planning authority decide whether the site should get planning on its own merits, whether the services are there and all that goes with that. The zoning is only creating another layer. It is making property dearer and sites more expensive, and denying people the chance of buying an affordable house.

I thank Deputy Danny Healy-Rae. I will ask that the points the Deputy has made are fed into the consideration being given to the Minister for the updated rural housing guidelines, which are currently being prepared by the Department of housing. The draft rural housing guidelines set out the relevant planning criteria to be applied in local authority development plans for rural housing and that is based on the high-level policy framework set out by the national planning framework. We will have a new national planning framework later this year.

In relation to the other issue specific to Kenmare, obviously that local area plan now will go through the various process that I outlined in my earlier answer.

I hope those two processes, both the rural housing guidelines and the Kenmare municipal district local area plan, can address some of the issues that the Deputy has brought to the Dáil today.