Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 19 Jun 2024

Given the interest expressed in the debate on the motion on international protection, asylum and migration, I propose to extend it into next week and proceed with the three Bills that are scheduled this evening. The proposal is as follows: "That, in relation to the arrangements for the motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Regulations and a Directive of the European Parliament and of the Council on international protection, asylum and migration, the arrangements shall be modified to the extent that Deputy Marc MacSharry may make a speech not exceeding five minutes and the proceedings on the motion and any amendment thereto shall be adjourned immediately, prior to the Minister's concluding response".

To be clear, there is to be a vote tonight on this matter. It was agreed by the Taoiseach that more time would be provided if Members presented themselves to be here to speak. Right now, Deputy MacSharry is here to speak. I want to know who the other Members who have indicated they want to speak are, because we are supposed to have a vote on this tonight.

I am certainly not agreeing to sitting here for another hour. That will mean we will be here until 1 a.m. The Deputy might like to be here but I am not going to ask the staff to be here until those unearthly hours.

It is not agreed. Are we going to have a vote?

For the benefit of people watching in, what is due to happen, without any change, is that everyone who has indicated and is present will have spoken within the allocated time, a vote would have proceeded and everyone who had sought time would have had the opportunity to speak. I am quite relaxed about this. I believe what might be expected has been discussed outside of the Chamber to some extent. It seems to me that what is being presented is an opportunity for the Minister to demonstrate generosity in order to come back next week and have a two-minute debate. We will not be here until 1 a.m. because after the Minister and Deputy MacSharry speak, if a single other name could be provided I would be very surprised. I am quite relaxed about this. Some people call it virtue signalling. To me, it is a gesture. If the Whip has additional names, I am sure we can hear them. I am not terribly bothered by this. It seems to be quite silly of the Government to be behaving in this kind of way.

I think I am making a valid point of order; the Ceann Comhairle can tell me whether he will allow it. What is going on here this evening with the deferral of the vote - this is the place where we hear all of the stories - is that the Government is not happy that it has enough numbers this evening and wants to have a better vote next week. Can the Whip confirm, through the Chair, whether that is the problem and why the vote is not being called? That is what is being said.

I am not going to allow the Whip to respond to that because that is not a question that bears answering. The reality is that we are scheduled to go on after this to votable business. I presume everybody who should have people here to vote are going to be here to vote. Are you calling a vote on this?

This is what I alluded to in my speech a few minutes ago. I am a bit like Deputy Ó Laoghaire; I am indifferent and neutral on this. If the Chief Whip says there should be more time afforded to the debate, I am all for that. At committee, we afforded more time. The time petered out and Deputies did not offer to contribute, so naturally the debate ran to a close. I want to be clear on what we are voting on. As I understand it, we are voting for more time to be allowed for the debate and the Members opposite are opposing that proposal. They do not want more time afforded to the debate.

I appreciate that the Government was prepared to allow me to speak. I very much appreciate that. In fairness to everybody here - a lot of us have been around these Houses for a long time - it is clear what is happening. It is tactical. Numbers are tight. Let us get on and have a vote. If there was interest in giving me time, I would have preferred for that to have been decoupled from pushing the motion on until there were more generous Government Members available.

I do not wish to prolong this debate. If a Member or Members wish to speak, they are entitled to speak and have their wishes adhered to. There is no game in this House like the old political game of trying to seize an opportunity when somebody seizes an opportunity. That is not what this House is about. This is about democracy. This is a very serious subject that needs full and adequate discussion and debate in the House. My feeling is that sufficient time was not allowed in the first place and I welcome the extra time now proposed by the Chief Whip.

I have assured Deputy MacSharry, who had indicated to me that he wanted to speak, that time would be made available to him. You are now indicating, Deputy, that you want time. It is 7.55 p.m. and we must conclude at 8 p.m. The Minister is required to respond. Her response stretches to ten minutes. It is physically impossible to conclude the business within the timescale set out. The Chief Whip's proposal is to defer further debate until next week. I am certainly not content to continue this to a point that people are required to be here. According to the schedule, our finishing time is 12 midnight. I am not prepared to stand over a situation in which, conscious of the fact that if we go on with this debate until 12 midnight or 12.30 a.m, staff who work here will be here for an additional hour afterwards. We are not right in putting that burden on people who have planned their week and working day.

The discussion of the legislation that would follows the conclusion of this motion is not anticipated to last for the time for which it is scheduled. I propose an amendment to the Government proposal that we make one more hour available for those who wish to avail of this. That is my amendment and if that is not agreed, unfortunately we cannot agree to the motion.

Our group is concerned about the late hours for the staff. It is crazy and ridiculous to have that both nights this week. This is a distasteful game. It was hidden during the election three weeks ago. We saw the rush when the motion was proposed in late April to get it done by 9 May. That backfired and when people were getting it in the neck on the doors the motion was postponed. Disgracefully, the Government hid and buried it, and brought it back tonight. This is a further extension of that game and the deceit goes on. I support the proposal from Deputy Mac Lochlainn.